Justified/Saved by Faith & Faith Alone

[Ted01]

Gal. 3:1-6 (ESV)
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

 

[mailmandan]

Not sure about connecting works and fruit.
A tomato plant can be barren of fruit and still have roots.

So your argument is faith without works (remains barren of works) is alive anyway?

 

[John146]

You kinda answered my question referring to relatively recent preachers on the scene preaching easy-belivism. Of course, I’m sure they would have said Jesus taught easy-believism, but Jesus said a lot of things and most of it was not “anything close to just believe and you’re done.”

Jesus taught the Jews concerning their promised kingdom, the kingdom of heaven coming down to earth. Go to what Paul was given as doctrine for the Gentile body of Christ. No law, no works, justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. We are in him, in Christ. Did Christ accomplish the works of justification?

 

[HeIsHere]

It's not about an unknown level of good works. It's about a bare profession of faith that results in no good works at all. Don't be so dramatic.

Drama is the only way to get noticed around here.

If you are referring to "you will know them by their fruits" fruits here very clearly means the adherents of false teachers.

A bare profession of faith can result in good works, perhaps even more so because they want to prove themselves.

I really think you need to face the fact that James is not comparing "fake believers" with genuine believers but rather believers who are living as their old self rather than their new self.

"Dead" does not mean non-existent,, nor does it mean a little bit alive, or mere, it means dead >>>>> INACTIVE like a dead body,

You have a huge logic hurdle you need to explain to the drama queen here.

 

[HeIsHere]

So your argument is faith without works (remains barren of works) is alive anyway?

No I am stating it is dead.

It is there but dead >>>> as in not being used like a tiny little little light and no one can see it because we cannot see faith unless it is demonstrated through outward action.

I think the word dead causes the problem, if you can see meaning of the word meaning as "not empowered" by works it all makes a lot more sense.

Also it shuts down the false view that salvation can be lost.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

James 2:26 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

Works-salvationists put the cart before the horse and teach salvation by faith and works. They seem to believe that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (which would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree). Yet something that is dead cannot produce anything. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root.

Pride. they want to puff themselves up. and say God look at me!!

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It's not about an unknown level of good works. It's about a bare profession of faith that results in no good works at all. Don't be so dramatic.

He seems to believe a person can believe in christ, yet not have faith in him, and still be saved.

Or so thats what I gather, since he has never answered that question any time I asked. and if you read his posts. that is what it appears to be saying

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

So your argument is faith without works (remains barren of works) is alive anyway?

I see you seer the same thing I see

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Also it shuts down the false view that salvation can be lost.

@mailmandan This just goes to my original argument, that people are fighting a doctrine and not what is actually being said.

If we are saved by Grace THROUGH FAITH

and a LIVING faith will produce

and it is based on the fact we have eternal life

there is absolutely no fear of loss of salvation in professing a dead faith is no faith at all

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Drama is the only way to get noticed around here.

If you are referring to "you will know them by their fruits" fruits here very clearly means the adherents of false teachers.

A bare profession of faith can result in good works, perhaps even more so because they want to prove themselves.

I really think you need to face the fact that James is not comparing "fake believers" with genuine believers but rather believers who are living as their old self rather than their new self.

"Dead" does not mean non-existent,, nor does it mean a little bit alive, or mere, it means dead >>>>> INACTIVE like a dead body,

You have a huge logic hurdle you need to explain to the drama queen here.

A body without the spirit is spiritually dead. They are lost, without hope

That body must be born again or made spiritually alive in order for it to be saved

so like the body without the spirit is DEAD, SO TO IS FAITH if it does not have works.

In both cases. the person in question is lost. The logic question is not his my friend, it is yours

 

[HeIsHere]

He seems to believe a person can believe in christ, yet not have faith in him, and still be saved.

Or so thats what I gather, since he has never answered that question any time I asked. and if you read his posts. that is what it appears to be saying

Twisting my words.

I will place you on ignore.

 

[HeIsHere]

A body without the spirit is spiritually dead. They are lost, without hope

That body must be born again or made spiritually alive in order for it to be saved

so like the body without the spirit is DEAD, SO TO IS FAITH if it does not have works.

In both cases. the person in question is lost. The logic question is not his my friend, it is yours

I never once stated they were spiritually dead the way you mean it.

If you cannot deal with nuance and the meaning of words in context we have nothing to discuss.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Twisting my words.

I will place you on ignore.

twisting your words? Its funny how dan saw the same thing I saw.

You could stop this whole thing by just answering the questions I have asked you numerous time

Do you believe a person can believe in Jesus yet Not have faith in him and still be saved? Yes or no?

 

[Runningman]

If alleged exegesis results in a different meaning than what the plain text of a passage says, then it isn’t worth considering. The Bible is in agreement with itself and uses its own internal evidences to support its claims.

Where the Bible says repent, it means repent. Where the Bible says believe, it means believe. No need to change anything to support the false narrative of “faith alone.”

 

[Runningman]

Or can we quote your interpretation below.

It is a hard road the Christian road, no joy folks. You must repent of all your sins and only when you have achieved, that holy man status. Then you are really considered to be a Christian and you are then saved. I know you can do it. Unless you overcome your sin you can't be saved.

That isn’t my interpretation nor is it my quote. It’s not even a paraphrase.

I think you feel threatened, like many other people here, when faced with the truth.

If you can’t defeat me on the playing field of Biblical literacy, then you must assign falsehoods and evil to me to discredit me.

Don’t give into that. I know you can be better. When you actually believe what the Bible says, there’s freedom.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I never once stated they were spiritually dead the way you mean it.

If you cannot deal with nuance and the meaning of words in context we have nothing to discuss.

I am just stating what the passage says my friend..

I never stated you said anything..

Why are you being so defensive?

 

[Runningman]

Jesus taught the Jews concerning their promised kingdom, the kingdom of heaven coming down to earth. Go to what Paul was given as doctrine for the Gentile body of Christ. No law, no works, justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. We are in him, in Christ. Did Christ accomplish the works of justification?

Paul didn’t teach easy believism either. Paul warned about not entering the kingdom of God, the dangers of walking in the flesh, being a Gentile branch that can be broken off just like the Jewish branches broken off. He spoke these things to Christians. Those things aren’t faith alone doctrines.

 

[Mem]

Paul didn’t teach easy believism either. Paul warned about not entering the kingdom of God, the dangers of walking in the flesh, being a Gentile branch that can be broken off just like the Jewish branches broken off. He spoke these things to Christians. Those things aren’t faith alone doctrines.

The natural branches were broken off for unbelief, and the wild branches boasting against the natural branches risk being broken off also... what could the wild branches possibly even have to boast about?
If their boast is about keeping the law then they are no better than the natural branches who trusted, tried, and failed to keep the law. If their boast is in their salvation over the natural branches cut off, the arrogance shows an unbelief that there is no hope in God that the natural branches might still be saved, if they do not continue in their unbelief (and return to and continue in His kindness).


So, unbelief is manifest in the lack of understanding God's kindness, and continuing in God's kindness is how anyone remains in Him (root).

If you insist that His kindness is withheld from anyone that doesn't keep the law you assert that God is severe, even after seeing that He obliged those that believed that wrongly of Him.

 

[Runningman]

The natural branches were broken off for unbelief, and the wild branches boasting against the natural branches risk being broken off also... what could the wild branches possibly even have to boast about?
If their boast is about keeping the law then they are no better than the natural branches who trusted, tried, and failed to keep the law. If their boast is in their salvation over the natural branches cut off, the arrogance shows an unbelief that there is no hope in God that the natural branches might still be saved, if they do not continue in their unbelief (and return to and continue in His kindness).


So, unbelief is manifest in the lack of understanding God's kindness, and continuing in God's kindness is how anyone remains in Him (root).

If you insist that His kindness is withheld from anyone that doesn't keep the law you assert that God is severe, even after seeing that He obliged those that believed that wrongly of Him.

Just going with what Paul said.

Paul said God is both severe and kind.

Persisting in unbelief means one can be broke off. Persisting in belief means someone can be granted in again.

This is something Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15 as well; no longer believing in the gospel that saves is in vain and therefore not salvation. It’s also taught in Hebrews 3. There are probably more but I don’t recall at the moment:

Romans 11
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20That is correct: They were broken off because of unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly not spare you either.
22Take notice, therefore, of the kindness and severity of God: severity to those who fell, but kindness to you, if you continue in His kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

 

[FlyingDove]

The letter is written to believers, just like the letters James wrote.

You're entitled to your belief.

I read see Hebrews, like Acts as a covenant to covenant (law to faith) transitional book.

James 1:1 states: To the 12 tribes which are SCATTERED abroad. Clearly written to those that had confessed Christ & had to scattered abroad for safety.

The Epistle to Hebrews doesn't make any target audience claims. Chapter 1 is clear to me it's audience extends beyond believers alone. Others are free to make their own observation.