Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#4,121
Apr 7, 2014
25,571
13,548
113
58
#4,121
Everlasting-Grace said:
the problem with this users argument, that is scripture. many of the times. God is plural

We made man in OUR image.

who is we??

How can jesus be above the angels.. who was he, if not God.
Click to expand...
Genesis 1:26 - Then God said, “Let US make man in OUR image, according to OUR likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” :)

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made... 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Who is the Word? The Living Word? Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ IS God. Praise the Lord! :D
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#4,122
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#4,122
mailmandan said:
Genesis 1:26 - Then God said, “Let US make man in OUR image, according to OUR likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” :)

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made... 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Who is the Word? The Living Word? Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ IS God. Praise the Lord! :D
Click to expand...

Non sequitur.

What you lack is any Jesus = Word statement in the Bible to make your conclusion actually make sense.

Reading John 1 and Genesis 1, since God creates things with His words then it means God created flesh with His words; i.e., the word [of God] became flesh.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#4,123
Apr 7, 2014
25,571
13,548
113
58
#4,123
Runningman said:
Non sequitur.

What you lack is any Jesus = Word statement in the Bible to make your conclusion actually make sense.

Reading John 1 and Genesis 1, since God creates things with His words then it means God created flesh with His words; i.e., the word [of God] became flesh.
Click to expand...
Your blatant disregard for the truth found in scripture is disturbing and your true colors are obvious. :(
 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
#4,125
#4,125
mailmandan said:
Your blatant disregard for the truth found in scripture is disturbing and your true colors are obvious. :(
Click to expand...
They're obvious to everyone but him, apparently. He really is saying some scary and flagrantly ignorant things here. Perhaps everyone should just say a prayer for him.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#4,126
Jul 31, 2013
37,957
13,615
113
#4,126
Runningman said:
Ever wonder why most people who look at Christianity don't understand the Trinity
Click to expand...
Interestingly only yesterday morning i was listening to a sermon in which the teacher said,

'I don't know if we will ever have the capacity to fully understand the nature of God, even in a resurrected state. If you ever walk into a church and the pastor says 'today I'm going to explain the trinity' you should throw your chair and run, grab something from the buffet on your way out!'
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#4,127
Jul 31, 2013
37,957
13,615
113
#4,127
Runningman said:
What you lack is any Jesus = Word statement in the Bible
Click to expand...
Wow.


John 1:14-15
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.'"


Bible is not unclear here.
The Word is Jesus Christ - Who is from above, and became flesh, and dwelt among us.
"Immanuel" = "God with us"
 
S

Sipsey

Well-known member
#4,128
Sep 27, 2018
1,502
713
113
#4,128
Runningman said:
Ever wonder why most people who look at Christianity don't understand the Trinity or how Jesus is who many Christians say he is?

Every wonder why Christians themselves don't understand it either most of the time?

I do, now, and I have found the answers I need by asking questions, being questioned, being challenged, and being forced to move out of my comfort zone repeatedly. All of those arguments, debates, and personal attacks against me weren't in vain. I labored and God reaped the glory. I have graduated CC University with honors. :giggle::)
Click to expand...
Im afraid the only grade you merit is an A, for arrogance.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#4,129
Jul 31, 2013
37,957
13,615
113
#4,129
Runningman said:
It may be of interest to inquiring minds to see what the early church believed about Jesus and what happened at the council or Nicea in the 4th century
Click to expand...
You mean how the early church believed in the eternal deity of Christ and His simultaneously full and perfect humanity, and by the 4th century had unilaterally rejected Arianism ((that Jesus was only a man)) as heresy and condemned those teaching it as apostate?

I suppose next your going to blame 'catholics' for writing John 1, Zechariah 12, Hebrews 1, Revelation 22 etc?

The fact though is that all these things with which the divinity of Christ is argued are in the scripture, and not just in one or two verses but literally all over scripture, over and over and over.

You seem to be hung up on the fact of His humanity thinking, like a Muslim, that it is impossible God can become a man. But what you are doing when you point out His humanity isn't debunking His divinity; it's further establishing His triunity.

And this is why it is Germaine to the thread:
Because it is God Himself saying that He is THE SHEPHERD, THE GOOD One Who does not lose any of His sheep. God does not lie.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#4,130
Jul 31, 2013
37,957
13,615
113
#4,130
Runningman said:
You mean like how you were doing earlier when I was showing you all of the many things that debunk OSAS? ;)
Click to expand...
Ha!

You are referring to your insistence that Jesus is making false prophecies in Matthew 19:28-29?

Nope.

I'm referring specifically to your blatant butchery of Psalm 45 and my overreaching at John 20:17 - but also in a general sense to how we need to step back in awe at scripture when it seems to make no sense, rather than try to twist it into what our puny little vain intellects think it should say.



Psalm 45, 1 Thessalonians 3, Hebrews 1 and Philippians 2 explain John 20:17, that The Son of Man is the Son of God, reconciling us whom He stooped down to become companion too, to Himself - as it is written, God shall make His dwelling among men.

GREAT is the mystery of godliness, GREAT is the work He has done!

By saying what He said in the garden, do not cling to Me, I have not ascended, and instructing that it be told He rose speaking as a man, He proves the bodily, physical resurrection - a demonstration and pattern that in Him we also will be resurrected, bodily: to be changed and brought near Him.

I see now what I didn't see earlier, but even still only dimly.
 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
#4,131
#4,131
posthuman said:
You seem to be hung up on the fact of His humanity thinking, like a Muslim, that it is impossible God can become a man. But what you are doing when you point out His humanity isn't debunking His divinity; it's further establishing His triunity.
Click to expand...
He obviously has no understanding whatsoever in regard to the dual nature of Christ.

I was praying for him earlier, and the one word that kept coming up in my spirit is "obstinate". Hopefully, God will truly get a hold of him, and he can get some much-needed help.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#4,132
Jul 31, 2013
37,957
13,615
113
#4,132
notonmywatch said:
He obviously has no understanding whatsoever in regard to the dual nature of Christ.

I was praying for him earlier, and the one word that kept coming up in my spirit is "obstinate". Hopefully, God will truly get a hold of him, and he can get some much-needed help.
Click to expand...
You're not the only one praying, brother
(y)
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#4,133
Jul 31, 2013
37,957
13,615
113
#4,133
Sipsey said:
Im afraid the only grade you merit is an A, for arrogance.
Click to expand...
How about an I for incomplete, give him time to finish the class?

since the Lord did not give up on me, i don't like to give up on others
 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
#4,134
#4,134
posthuman said:
How about an I for incomplete, give him time to finish the class?

since the Lord did not give up on me, i don't like to give up on others
Click to expand...
Frighteningly, he thinks that he's teaching the class.

Anyway, I'll just go back to praying for him in relation to Christ's divinity that he apparently rejects.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#4,135
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#4,135
posthuman said:
Wow.


John 1:14-15
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.'"


Bible is not unclear here.
The Word is Jesus Christ - Who is from above, and became flesh, and dwelt among us.
"Immanuel" = "God with us"
Click to expand...
No that’s wrong.

Let me try to word it a different way to see if that makes sense.

God’s words become whatever He wants them to. In Genesis, God created things with words. John 1, God created flesh with His words, a human being later named Jesus.

Where you’re going way off the tracks is you’re saying “Gods word equals Jesus.” The Bible doesn’t that. At all. Anywhere. Gods words are His creation tool, for lack of a better word.

It’s like you need to deny and/or add things to what the Bible says to come to virtually every conclusion I’ve watched you espouse. I just plainly go with what the Bible says. Why don’t you?
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#4,136
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#4,136
notonmywatch said:
Frighteningly, he thinks that he's teaching the class.

Anyway, I'll just go back to praying for him in relation to Christ's divinity that he apparently rejects.
Click to expand...
I am teaching the class.

Thanks for the prayers they’ve been a great blessing to me. Never have I had such an outpouring of prayerful support.

I’ll pray for you as well.
 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
#4,137
#4,137
Runningman said:
I am teaching the class.

Thanks for the prayers they’ve been a great blessing to me. Never have I had such an outpouring of prayerful support.

I’ll pray for you as well.
Click to expand...
You need a lot of help. Like I said in an earlier post somewhere, when I was praying for you earlier today, the word "obstinate" kept coming up in my spirit, and that certainly reflects your recent behavior on some of these threads.

Anyway, your flippant response indicates that you must think that this is some sort of a game. It isn't. Denying Christ's deity, which you've repeatedly done, is a very serious offense in God's eyes, and a clear-cut indicator to others here that you're not being led by the Spirit of truth. That only leaves one other kind of spirit. I'd do some serious soul-searching before God if I were you.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#4,138
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#4,138
notonmywatch said:
You need a lot of help. Like I said in an earlier post somewhere, when I was praying for you earlier today, the word "obstinate" kept coming up in my spirit, and that certainly reflects your recent behavior on some of these threads.

Anyway, your flippant response indicates that you must think that this is some sort of a game. It isn't. Denying Christ's deity, which you've repeatedly done, is a very serious offense in God's eyes, and a clear-cut indicator to others here that you're not being led by the Spirit of truth. That only leaves one other kind of spirit. I'd do some serious soul-searching before God if I were you.
Click to expand...
Your false accusations are found nowhere in the Bible and yet you claim the spiritual high ground?

The irony is the very arrogance and obstinance you’re assigning to me is presently actually what you have. Those things are you in your spirit, not mine, hence you’re the one who feels them. Pay attention to those feelings, maybe that’s God trying to help you.

What’s more, the “divinity” you’re saying I deny, I don’t.

Now your judgements return to you.

What is a serious offense to God is idolatry. You shall have no other gods before God. The New Testament explicitly identifies the Father as God: Jesus, Paul, and Peter affirm this completely and directly again and again.

Now show yourself. Do you call anyone else besides the Father your God?
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#4,139
Nov 20, 2018
23,801
8,618
113
#4,139
Runningman said:
God’s words become whatever He wants them to. In Genesis, God created things with words. John 1, God created flesh with His words, a human being later named Jesus.

Where you’re going way off the tracks is you’re saying “Gods word equals Jesus.”
Click to expand...
RM....you are not only "off the tracks", you are in the ditch, in the weeds and on fire.

 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
#4,140
#4,140
Runningman said:
Your false accusations are found nowhere in the Bible and yet you claim the spiritual high ground?

The irony is the very arrogance and obstinance you’re assigning to me is presently actually what you have. Those things are you in your spirit, not mine, hence you’re the one who feels them. Pay attention to those feelings, maybe that’s God trying to help you.

What’s more, the “divinity” you’re saying I deny, I don’t.

Now your judgements return to you.

What is a serious offense to God is idolatry. You shall have no other gods before God. The New Testament explicitly identifies the Father as God: Jesus, Paul, and Peter affirm this completely and directly again and again.

Now show yourself. Do you call anyone else besides the Father your God?
Click to expand...
If you don't deny Jesus' divinity, as you just claimed, then why are you asking if I call anyone besides the Father my God?

Here's a simple question for anybody who isn't deceptive or who doesn't have anything to hide:

Is Jesus God?

A. Yes.
B. No.
C. I don't know.

My answer is YES!

What's your answer?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.