Hell's Best Kept Secret Method method of evangelism and the Bible

[Evmur]

Who said anything about shouting?

God's word is likened to the sword of the Spirit.

Do I need to charge at somebody, while shouting, in order to stick them with a sword?

No, I don't. I can easily do so calmly and softly, but I'm not going to dull my sword's edge either.

Psalm 19

7The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Why are you arguing against something that is perfect in relation to converting one's soul?

The testimony of the Lord is sure

His testimony is that obeying the law and commandments as a way to attaining righteousness is abolished, He has made a new and living way whereby He can write His law upon men's hearts.

He has promised ETERNAL LIFE as a free gift to everybody who believes the good news about Jesus.

If the covenant of the law was indeed perfect why would God scrap it and introduce a new covenant based upon faith.

The law is perfect, the problem was no-one keeps it ... then or now.

 

[Evmur]

Who said anything about shouting?

God's word is likened to the sword of the Spirit.

Do I need to charge at somebody, while shouting, in order to stick them with a sword?

No, I don't. I can easily do so calmly and softly, but I'm not going to dull my sword's edge either.

Psalm 19

7The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Why are you arguing against something that is perfect in relation to converting one's soul?

If you ask someone "do you know Jesus personally?" it is like a sword dividing between the bone and marrow

 

[notonmywatch]

The testimony of the Lord is sure

His testimony is that obeying the law and commandments as a way to attaining righteousness is abolished, He has made a new and living way whereby He can write His law upon men's hearts.

He has promised ETERNAL LIFE as a free gift to everybody who believes the good news about Jesus.

If the covenant of the law was indeed perfect why would God scrap it and introduce a new covenant based upon faith.

The law is perfect, the problem was no-one keeps it ... then or now.

I said nothing about the law as a means of attaining righteousness. Instead, I said that it's perfect in converting the soul. It's our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. It brings or gives us the knowledge of sin that we might see our need for a Savior. Surely, you must know these things already. Right?

 

[Evmur]

I said nothing about the law as a means of attaining righteousness. Instead, I said that it's perfect in converting the soul. It's our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. It brings or gives us the knowledge of sin that we might see our need for a Savior. Surely, you must know these things already. Right?

Not quite.
Gal. 3
Why then the law? it was added because of transgressions UNTIL the offspring should come to whom the promise was made.

We are not the children of Moses but the children of Abraham. And Abraham was declared righteous through faith only.

 

[Evmur]

I said nothing about the law as a means of attaining righteousness. Instead, I said that it's perfect in converting the soul. It's our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. It brings or gives us the knowledge of sin that we might see our need for a Savior. Surely, you must know these things already. Right?

conversion of the soul = righteousness

 

[Evmur]

I said nothing about the law as a means of attaining righteousness. Instead, I said that it's perfect in converting the soul. It's our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. It brings or gives us the knowledge of sin that we might see our need for a Savior. Surely, you must know these things already. Right?

The law was never given to the Gentiles but to the Jews only it was THEIR schoolmaster to bring them to Christ.

 

[notonmywatch]

Not quite.
Gal. 3
Why then the law? it was added because of transgressions UNTIL the offspring should come to whom the promise was made.

We are not the children of Moses but the children of Abraham. And Abraham was declared righteous through faith only.

Why are you arguing against things that I haven't said instead of addressing what I've actually said?

Of course, we're made righteous through faith in Christ, but/and the law brings the knowledge of sin that we might see our need for Christ.

1 Timothy 1

8But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to Paul's trust, the law is GOOD, if a man uses it lawfully. Well, how does one use it lawfully? The answer is simple. To bring the knowledge of sin to the unsaved. Are you going to fight against that which is good? Whatever you do, please don't add to my words again. Thank you.

 

[notonmywatch]

The law was never given to the Gentiles but to the Jews only it was THEIR schoolmaster to bring them to Christ.

Romans 3

19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

 

[notonmywatch]

conversion of the soul = righteousness

The law is a God-given means by which to convert the soul unto righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Evmur]

Why are you arguing against things that I haven't said instead of addressing what I've actually said?

Of course, we're made righteous through faith in Christ, but/and the law brings the knowledge of sin that we might see our need for Christ.

1 Timothy 1

8But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to Paul's trust, the law is GOOD, if a man uses it lawfully. Well, how does one use it lawfully? The answer is simple. To bring the knowledge of sin to the unsaved. Are you going to fight against that which is good? Whatever you do, please don't add to my words again. Thank you.

I'm not sure where I added to your words before

But I will add what you imply with your quote

You add on to 1 Tim 1
.... anything that is contrary to sound doctrine in order to bring them to Christ

The gospel is not to go around telling people they are murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, profane and unholy etc

The good news is that Jesus is Lord of Heaven and Earth that is the Good News.

People are in trouble, they need to know "this Jesus, is He any good? will He help me?"

"what must I do to be saved?"

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved and your house"

 

[Evmur]

The law is a God-given means by which to convert the soul unto righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ.

Then Paul would have said

"by the law you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves"

We are saved by Grace

 

[notonmywatch]

Never mind.

 

[Evmur]

Romans 3

19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Yeh but this is saying opposite to you

You's saying the law will bring you to faith and so righteousness

 

[notonmywatch]

Yeh but this is saying opposite to you

You's saying the law will bring you to faith and so righteousness

Actually, what I've been saying all along is that the law brings the knowledge of sin that people might see their need for a Savior.

Do you have really poor reading comprehension skills, or do you just like to deliberately twist other people's words?

Whatever the case may be, this discussion is going nowhere, so I'll just bid you farewell.

 

[Evmur]

Actually, what I've been saying all along is that the law brings the knowledge of sin that people might see their need for a Savior.

Do you have really poor reading comprehension skills, or do you just like to deliberately twist other people's words?

Whatever the case may be, this discussion is going nowhere, so I'll just bid you farewell.

You see sin as the barrier, I see unbelief as the barrier. God never spoke to Abraham about sin, Abraham was not accounted righteous because he repented of sin but because He believed God, He believed the promise.

The saving sacrifice was revealed to him later.

 

[awelight]

you need to think

if more people are drawn to hear the gospel because they see the miracles done to the sick more people will be regenerated. Moreover healing and deliverance is not an added extra but is part of God's salvation package, fully included in the atonement Christ made at Calvary ... He bore our sicknesses and carried our pains. It is alongside atonement for sins.

You are not God, you are not like God ... God is compassionate.

In all humility I say, it is you that is not thinking these things through.

I believe in all of the miracles that are given to believers in the Scriptures to read and study. People were indeed attracted to the miracles but in almost every case, it was because they wanted what these miracles could do, not because they were concerned about their eternal state before God. This fact, is well documented throughout the Scriptures concerning miracles. Examples:

1) When Jesus began to heal persons, the word spread throughout the land and multitudes came up to be healed. They were not interested in what Jesus was teaching but what He could do for them. Therefore, their interest was in personal gain.

2) In the case of the religious leaders of the day, they wanted to kill Jesus because of what He was doing.

3) When Jesus fed the 5,000 - (John 6:5-14), the crowd came because they wanted to be fed. Not food for the mind but food for their bellies. After being fed they wanted to take Jesus by force and make Him King. Not because the wanted to repent and be healed but because they believed if Jesus was King, they would always have food for their bellies.
John 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw signs, but because ye ate of the loaves, and were filled.

And let us not forget about Simon, who after seeing the power demonstrated by Peter attempted to buy it. (Acts 8:18-21)

 

[awelight]

so do YOU reject the full gospel, and the miracles which do authenticate Jesus as the Messiah, King of the Kingdom of God.

You believe a truncated gospel, half a gospel. you preach only part of the message you were given to deliver ... why? are you afraid that if you preach healing it will expose you as powerless?

Why did you deflect from the point I was making?
Did or did you not put words in the mouth of the Savior He did not say? If YES, you need to repent of it. If NO, then give the chapter and verse, please.

No I do not have a truncated Gospel. While God has graciously healed me, through prayer, of several physical problems. I never lose sight that this was done because God's will towards me, was to grant my request on these occasions. His will could have been in the opposite direction; much like the Apostle Paul, who having gone three times before the Lord, did not find it the will of God, to relieve him of his thorn.

I do not "preach" healing because I am not Charismatic.

 

[notonmywatch]

Why did you deflect from the point I was making?
Did or did you not put words in the mouth of the Savior He did not say? If YES, you need to repent of it. If NO, then give the chapter and verse, please.

No I do not have a truncated Gospel. While God has graciously healed me, through prayer, of several physical problems. I never lose sight that this was done because God's will towards me, was to grant my request on these occasions. His will could have been in the opposite direction; much like the Apostle Paul, who having gone three times before the Lord, did not find it the will of God, to relieve him of his thorn.

I do not "preach" healing because I am not Charismatic.

Paul's thorn had nothing to do with any sort of illness, and if you're not "charismatic", then you're not saved.

Romans 6

23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift (charisma) of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[awelight]

Paul's thorn had nothing to do with any sort of illness, and if you're not "charismatic", then you're not saved.

Romans 6

23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift (charisma) of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I don't know why you are answering a post given to another but I hope you were joking, when you said I had to be apart of the Charismatic movement to be saved. If you were not, then this is the most preposterous statement I have ever seen on this chat.

Yes, in Romans 6:23, the Greek word translated "gift" is charisma. However, that had nothing to do with my reply about being Charismatic. My concern is about the Grace of God, the gifts are a part of that package.

 

[notonmywatch]

I don't know why you are answering a post given to another...

Because this is a public forum, and not a private chat.

...but I hope you were joking, when you said I had to be apart of the Charismatic movement to be saved.

I wasn't joking, and I didn't say a word about "the Charismatic movement".

If you were not, then this is the most preposterous statement I have ever seen on this chat.

There's nothing the least bit preposterous about what I actually said. Salvation is a gift (charisma), and therefore every Christian who has received this gift is "charismatic".

Yes, in Romans 6:23, the Greek word translated "gift" is charisma. However, that had nothing to do with my reply about being Charismatic. My concern is about the Grace of God, the gifts are a part of that package.

Yes, the gifts are a part of that package, but whether or not one has the gift of healing, we should still be preaching healing (which you said you don't do) because Christ and the Apostles preached the same, and they are our examples.