Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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I just want to make sure I understand you so I can wrap my head around what you’re saying.
Is this accurate about what you believe:
1. Jesus is God
2. Jesus’ Father is God
3. God “emptied” Himself and become a man named Jesus
4. Jesus was not God’s Son until his resurrection
5. At Jesus’ resurrection is when he was adopted
6. We can become adopted sons of God as well
7. When we become adopted sons, we become joint-heirs with Jesus, in a sense, but not totally equally since we don’t become God
8. We don’t become joint-heirs until we are resurrected like Jesus was
please feel free to modify that if it isn’t accurate.
Is this accurate about what you believe:
1. Jesus is God
2. Jesus’ Father is God
3. God “emptied” Himself and become a man named Jesus
4. Jesus was not God’s Son until his resurrection
5. At Jesus’ resurrection is when he was adopted
6. We can become adopted sons of God as well
7. When we become adopted sons, we become joint-heirs with Jesus, in a sense, but not totally equally since we don’t become God
8. We don’t become joint-heirs until we are resurrected like Jesus was
please feel free to modify that if it isn’t accurate.
The author of Hebrews says that Psalm 45:6 refers to Christ, explicitly calling Him God.
Hebrews 1:8
But to the Son He says:
"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom."
So you are saying the author of Hebrews has misinterpreted the Psalm?
Hebrews 1:8
But to the Son He says:
"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom."
So you are saying the author of Hebrews has misinterpreted the Psalm?
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Do you believe God has companions to be anointed above because He loved righteousness and hated wickedness? That’s the problem with that. God is superior to all so I think we at least agree there. That’s why I raised the concerns I did with my previous post.
Iirc, that would not be an orthodox Trinitarian view where each member of the Trinity is equal, but one.
Iirc, that would not be an orthodox Trinitarian view where each member of the Trinity is equal, but one.
Night night all.
Let us all remember that God loves us a much as he loves Jesus.
John 17:23
23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
John 13:35
35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
Let us all remember that God loves us a much as he loves Jesus.
John 17:23
23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
John 13:35
35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
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you do not seem to comprehend what is happening here.
i believe the Bible. all of it.
Psalm 45 makes perfect sense as it is written.
Jesus is both 100% perfect man and 100% The One True God.
as a man, He has a God - and it is Himself.
His Father is God - Himself; they are One.
as a man, He spoke to men as a man and He walked as a man demonstrating to us what a perfect man is.
simultaneously at no time was He ever not The Almighty God.
He is not simple. the Bible is not simple. you cannot think of Him as a simple creature like you or me.
this God-Man is called by the Bible a "great mystery" - the greatest mystery.
i am not claiming to understand Him. but i know Whom i have believed.
i am not afraid to say anything i believe - tho you may be - but i work 65+ hours a week at a very mentally demanding vocation and don't have the leisure to write long posts on my phone in reply to you. i particularly don't have time to chase you down rabbit holes while you duck simple questions. and least, not until the weekend... but i also have a kenosis thread i started to get back to.
now do you believe Hebrews 1:6 is accurate or not?
if you do not, why in the world did you start a thread called "do you believe the Bible" ??
are you the one "no" vote?
i believe the Bible. all of it.
Psalm 45 makes perfect sense as it is written.
Jesus is both 100% perfect man and 100% The One True God.
as a man, He has a God - and it is Himself.
His Father is God - Himself; they are One.
as a man, He spoke to men as a man and He walked as a man demonstrating to us what a perfect man is.
simultaneously at no time was He ever not The Almighty God.
He is not simple. the Bible is not simple. you cannot think of Him as a simple creature like you or me.
this God-Man is called by the Bible a "great mystery" - the greatest mystery.
i am not claiming to understand Him. but i know Whom i have believed.
i am not afraid to say anything i believe - tho you may be - but i work 65+ hours a week at a very mentally demanding vocation and don't have the leisure to write long posts on my phone in reply to you. i particularly don't have time to chase you down rabbit holes while you duck simple questions. and least, not until the weekend... but i also have a kenosis thread i started to get back to.
now do you believe Hebrews 1:6 is accurate or not?
if you do not, why in the world did you start a thread called "do you believe the Bible" ??
are you the one "no" vote?
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Thank you for answering. Then you don’t believe in a co-equal Trinity. Right?
in fact, if God has companions to be anointed over, and those companions are human, then it follows at one point he was equal to or less in status than his human companions.
Does that sound like creator of the universe to you?
in fact, if God has companions to be anointed over, and those companions are human, then it follows at one point he was equal to or less in status than his human companions.
Does that sound like creator of the universe to you?
YES
ONLY BY ADOPTION: IN REALITY JESUS HAS NO FATHER: BUT HE SHOWED US HOW WE ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE FATHER
YES
BAPTISM [HENCE GOD SAYING THIS DAY YOU ARE MY BEGOTTEN SON]
IT HAPPENED AFTER HIS BAPTISM AND JOHN THE BAPTIST WAS EYE WITNESS FOR A SIGN FROM GOD WHO THE MESSIAH WOULD BE
YES, WHEN WE ACCEPT JESUS AS LORD AND SAVIOUR
WE BECOME JOINT-HEIRS MEANING WE HAVE A PROMISE FROM GOD WE WILL BE CITIZENS OF HEAVEN ONE DAY
WE ARE JOINT-HEIRS NOW!
ONLY BY ADOPTION: IN REALITY JESUS HAS NO FATHER: BUT HE SHOWED US HOW WE ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE FATHER
YES
BAPTISM [HENCE GOD SAYING THIS DAY YOU ARE MY BEGOTTEN SON]
IT HAPPENED AFTER HIS BAPTISM AND JOHN THE BAPTIST WAS EYE WITNESS FOR A SIGN FROM GOD WHO THE MESSIAH WOULD BE
YES, WHEN WE ACCEPT JESUS AS LORD AND SAVIOUR
WE BECOME JOINT-HEIRS MEANING WE HAVE A PROMISE FROM GOD WE WILL BE CITIZENS OF HEAVEN ONE DAY
WE ARE JOINT-HEIRS NOW!
When they translated the Bible,
In Psalm 45, the context is about a human king with a foreign wife.
Consider Exodus 7:1
1Then the Lord said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.
Sometimes humans of high status are referred to as a God. Not because they are literally Lord God Almighty, like Moses for example, but because of their status, power, authority.
I think that’s what Psalm 45 shows and Hebrews 1:8,9 shows as well. It’s evident that this person being called God has companions that he wasn’t at one point elevated above. He’s a kingly and powerful character. That’s the correct interpretation that makes most sense to me. It also keeps God from having a superior God in Hebrews 1.
So yes I believe Hebrews 1 and Psalm 45 completely.
In Psalm 45, the context is about a human king with a foreign wife.
Consider Exodus 7:1
1Then the Lord said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.
Sometimes humans of high status are referred to as a God. Not because they are literally Lord God Almighty, like Moses for example, but because of their status, power, authority.
I think that’s what Psalm 45 shows and Hebrews 1:8,9 shows as well. It’s evident that this person being called God has companions that he wasn’t at one point elevated above. He’s a kingly and powerful character. That’s the correct interpretation that makes most sense to me. It also keeps God from having a superior God in Hebrews 1.
So yes I believe Hebrews 1 and Psalm 45 completely.
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clearly you do not:
to the Son He says:
And:
God is the "He" who says these things, about the Son.
God calls the Son "God" quoting Psalm 45.
God calls the Son "LORD" quoting Psalm 102
-- the word here is the tetragrammaton, YHWH.
God says the Son laid the foundations of the earth.
God says the heavens are the work of the Son's hands.
God says the Son will like a cloak fold up the heavens and the earth and change them.
God says the Son is unchanging, eternal.
God also says the Son is anointed by God with gladness more than His companions.
clearly the Son is God.
clearly the Son came to us, born a man.
clearly the Father is God and the Son is God.
the Son is the God of the Father, for He calls the Son "Oh God"
the Father is the God of the Son, for He says of Himself, "Your God"
clearly what you believe is incompatible with the text.
to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
“You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”
God is the "He" who says these things, about the Son.
God calls the Son "God" quoting Psalm 45.
God calls the Son "LORD" quoting Psalm 102
-- the word here is the tetragrammaton, YHWH.
God says the Son laid the foundations of the earth.
God says the heavens are the work of the Son's hands.
God says the Son will like a cloak fold up the heavens and the earth and change them.
God says the Son is unchanging, eternal.
God also says the Son is anointed by God with gladness more than His companions.
clearly the Son is God.
clearly the Son came to us, born a man.
clearly the Father is God and the Son is God.
the Son is the God of the Father, for He calls the Son "Oh God"
the Father is the God of the Son, for He says of Himself, "Your God"
clearly what you believe is incompatible with the text.
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