Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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You just refuted OSAS. You’re referring to those who had a conscience to begin with and are now lost having their conscience seared as with a hot iron. It has to do with continual rejection of the Holy Spirit, willful sinning, until they don’t even feel any godly sorrow that leads them to repentance.
Glad to see you’re asking good questions .
Everyone has a conscience to begin with. I'm not surprised to see you've twisted what I've written to say what you want it to.
I don't understand,
You don't think what a person believes about Christ greatly affects how/if they understand the Bible?
Or you think a discussion about deep things in the Bible can still move forward even if we don't have any grounding fundamental concepts aof the Bible?
You've only failed to notice my mastery of dots because it's not the picture you'd imagined it were.
Jesus said My Father and Your Father. He is talking in a spiritual sense, not biological. The Father is my Father because I am Saved, not because He is my biological Father.
Jesus is God’s only begotten Son. Make of that what you will, but it’s very Biblical and it means Jesus is God’s offspring, hence Jesus called God his God and Father. The same God and Father we can have is the same God and Father that Jesus has.
Belief about anything certainly affects perception. I don’t have a preference about who or what anything is though. That’s what is special about me.
If the Bible says Jesus is God’s Son and the Father is God I simply follow that. So why don’t you?
Everything you claim, allege, and posit is flimsy, not direct, or concrete. Doesn’t that concern you that you have to interpret everything to make your Bible work?
I have almost reached a point where I don’t need to interpret anything.
From my perspective, this is the Bible versus you.
After His Baptism, we read/hear Psalms quoted: You are My Son [[THIS DAY]] ((I HAVE BEGOTTEN THEE)).
This is the clearest example of ADOPTION!
JESUS IS NOT A BIOLOGICAL SON OF THE FATHER!!
Interesting, I’ve never heard anyone else say Jesus was adopted. I’ll have to look into that, but on the surface level it’s not sitting well with my spirit.
Care to elaborate a bit more?
God emptied Himself and became flesh.
This is Jesus.
Jesus is God, who emptied Himself and became flesh.
Jesus is the WORD, which is God!
John 1:1 says in the beginning...the WORD is God.
Jesus is playing a role by leaving Heaven, emptied Himself, became flesh, was Sacrificed for our sins.
He is already God!
Now, look at us. We become sons of God when we are Saved. We are adopted.
But to be Adopted, one who was sinless first had to be Adopted. Jesus is the FIRST of everything. FIRST to Resurrect, first to be Adopted, ect.
The key word here is [[THIS DAY]].
If Jesus was biological, it would be from the beginning. But God said [[THIS DAY]] YOU ARE MY BEGOTTEN.
Okay I think I’m following you because I understand Bible speak, but if you were trying to explain this someone who isn’t familiar with Bible words and concepts, what would you say?
So, if I am following you correctly, you’re basically saying that Jesus became God’s adopted Son after the resurrection, in a spiritual sense?
Psalms 139 (NKJV)
God’s Perfect Knowledge of Man
For the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David.
1 O LORD, You have searched me and known me.
2 You know my sitting down and my rising up;
You understand my thought afar off.
3 You comprehend my path and my lying down,
And are acquainted with all my ways.
4 For there is not a word on my tongue,
But behold, O LORD, You know it altogether.
5 You have hedged me behind and before,
And laid Your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
It is high, I cannot attain it.
7 Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning,
And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10 Even there Your hand shall lead me,
And Your right hand shall hold me.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness shall fall on me,”
Even the night shall be light about me;
12 Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You,
But the night shines as the day;
The darkness and the light are both alike to You.
13 For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.
17 How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God!
How great is the sum of them!
18 If I should count them, they would be more in number than the sand;
When I awake, I am still with You.
19 Oh, that You would slay the wicked, O God!
Depart from me, therefore, you bloodthirsty men.
20 For they speak against You wickedly;
Your enemies take Your name in vain.
21 Do I not hate them, O LORD, who hate You?
And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred;
I count them my enemies.
23 Search me, O God, and know my heart;
Try me, and know my anxieties;
24 And see if there is any wicked way in me,
And lead me in the way everlasting.
In verses 1&4 David uses Lord.
In verses 17/19/23 David uses God.
Why use Lord and then God?
Is Jesus not our Lord & Saviour?
God’s Perfect Knowledge of Man
For the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David.
1 O LORD, You have searched me and known me.
2 You know my sitting down and my rising up;
You understand my thought afar off.
3 You comprehend my path and my lying down,
And are acquainted with all my ways.
4 For there is not a word on my tongue,
But behold, O LORD, You know it altogether.
5 You have hedged me behind and before,
And laid Your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
It is high, I cannot attain it.
7 Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning,
And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10 Even there Your hand shall lead me,
And Your right hand shall hold me.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness shall fall on me,”
Even the night shall be light about me;
12 Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You,
But the night shines as the day;
The darkness and the light are both alike to You.
13 For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.
17 How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God!
How great is the sum of them!
18 If I should count them, they would be more in number than the sand;
When I awake, I am still with You.
19 Oh, that You would slay the wicked, O God!
Depart from me, therefore, you bloodthirsty men.
20 For they speak against You wickedly;
Your enemies take Your name in vain.
21 Do I not hate them, O LORD, who hate You?
And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred;
I count them my enemies.
23 Search me, O God, and know my heart;
Try me, and know my anxieties;
24 And see if there is any wicked way in me,
And lead me in the way everlasting.
In verses 1&4 David uses Lord.
In verses 17/19/23 David uses God.
Why use Lord and then God?
Is Jesus not our Lord & Saviour?
God has a Will and that Will will always be done in His plan for the Universe, the World, each one of us. When we're born and die that was in God's plan.
After what happened in the Garden with Adam and Eve, there was a Messiah plan that would be God emptying Himself, becoming flesh, and dying for our sins.
The process is when we become Saved, we become Joint-Heirs.
Joint-Heir means we must be Adopted and the Father becomes our Father.
But this only happens by going through Jesus.
Therefore, Jesus must be Adopted as we are and that makes us equal Joint-Heirs.
Let me clarify when I say we are equal.
Adopted sons/daughters are equal.
This makes us Joint-Heirs.
Following your comments so far. Would you agree that when the Holy Spirit descended like a dove and rested upon Him (as He is sinless so worthy to house the Holy Spirit, and this set a precedent for all other man' experience of receiving the Holy Ghost) and Father's voice said, "You are my Son. This Day I have begotten thee," and Jesus began his 'mission' which culminated in His breathing out His Spirit, or 'giving up the Ghost', on the cross, this is exactly what made it possible that we could now, after His having shed His blood, which purifies us of our sin, also receive the Holy Spirit, and likewise be called sons of God?
You’re saying Jesus is God and that we can have equality with Jesus. Then you believe we become God?