Believer or Disciple? What's the Difference?

[SteveEpperson]

While reading some bible commentary today, the writer presented an interesting viewpoint. He described the term "disciple" as being broader in scope than "believer." I have always thought of it as the other way around.

Yet, from a historical, biblical viewpoint, I can see where he got this idea. The word disciple in the Gospels did not carry the same connotation it does today.

In 2023, we view disciples as both believers and dedicated pupils of Jesus. But until His death, burial, and resurrection, these first disciples only remained students.

Sure, they believed some aspects of the Gospel, but until Christ revealed Himself alive after His death on the cross, I don't think we could label them "truly saved." I also believe this is why Easter is such an important holiday. As with the first disciples, we must affirm his resurrection before any of it makes sense.

I don't think you can become a disciple without being a true believer. Conversely, I don't think anyone can become an effective believer without being a true disciple.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Aussie52]

To become a believer, one accepts the free offer of the Gospel.
To become a disciple , costs one everything.
So, every disciple is a believer but not all believers are disciples.

 

[Gideon300]

While reading some bible commentary today, the writer presented an interesting viewpoint. He described the term "disciple" as being broader in scope than "believer." I have always thought of it as the other way around.

Yet, from a historical, biblical viewpoint, I can see where he got this idea. The word disciple in the Gospels did not carry the same connotation it does today.

In 2023, we view disciples as both believers and dedicated pupils of Jesus. But until His death, burial, and resurrection, these first disciples only remained students.

Sure, they believed some aspects of the Gospel, but until Christ revealed Himself alive after His death on the cross, I don't think we could label them "truly saved." I also believe this is why Easter is such an important holiday. As with the first disciples, we must affirm his resurrection before any of it makes sense.

I don't think you can become a disciple without being a true believer. Conversely, I don't think anyone can become an effective believer without being a true disciple.

What are your thoughts?

I agree entirely. However, many preachers seem also to want their congregation to remain spiritual infants. I hear of churches where so-called worship (in reality a self-indulgent music festival) has replaced preaching entirely. Ignorance is not bliss. It is the key to control. It is also the door to deception. Someone I know was caught up in a deception. I asked him how come? He told me that his pastor said it was OK. When the pastor of my church started preaching a false doctrine, I got into the Bible to see for myself. I had been saved four years. I was pretty rough in those days. God had plenty of my wrinkles to iron out. I knew enough not to take the word of an authority figure if it contradicted God's word.

 

[Gideon300]

To become a believer, one accepts the free offer of the Gospel.
To become a disciple , costs one everything.
So, every disciple is a believer but not all believers are disciples.

Well said.

 

[notonmywatch]

While reading some bible commentary today, the writer presented an interesting viewpoint. He described the term "disciple" as being broader in scope than "believer." I have always thought of it as the other way around.

Yet, from a historical, biblical viewpoint, I can see where he got this idea. The word disciple in the Gospels did not carry the same connotation it does today.

In 2023, we view disciples as both believers and dedicated pupils of Jesus. But until His death, burial, and resurrection, these first disciples only remained students.

Sure, they believed some aspects of the Gospel, but until Christ revealed Himself alive after His death on the cross, I don't think we could label them "truly saved." I also believe this is why Easter is such an important holiday. As with the first disciples, we must affirm his resurrection before any of it makes sense.

I don't think you can become a disciple without being a true believer. Conversely, I don't think anyone can become an effective believer without being a true disciple.

What are your thoughts?

John 8

31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jesus told those who believed on him that they needed to continue in his word in order to truly be his disciples.

We see this same principle here as well:

John 6

66From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Here, we see those who were called disciples going back and walking with Jesus no more. We must endure to the end to be saved.

 

[Aussie52]

John 8

31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jesus told those who believed on him that they needed to continue in his word in order to truly be his disciples.

We see this same principle here as well:

John 6

66From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Here, we see those who were called disciples going back and walking with Jesus no more. We must endure to the end to be saved.

You cannot backload grace with works to be saved.
We are kept by the power of God.
We are not saved by enduring, but by grace through faith.

 

[HeIsHere]

You cannot backload grace with works to be saved.
We are kept by the power of God.
We are not saved by enduring, but by grace through faith.

Thank you and Amen!

 

[JohnDB]

A disciple is a learner...

In Ancient Israel children went to bethgashepher. Bet h gas hep her. It was basically elementary school where children learned to read and write, mathematics and history....and you completely memorized the Torah. (School became compulsory in 60AD)

If you were one of the best students you could attend bethmidrash. Where you discussed the interpretations of the Torah and continued to memorize the entire Tenach (Old Testament)

Of those in bethmidrash the best students with the best families and having the best reputations could ask a Rabbi if he could follow him. If the Rabbi said "Yes" then you became a telmuhdeme. (Disciple)
You job was to become just like your Rabbi. You completely copied every mannerism and espoused every belief your Rabbi does. If your Rabbi snored and you didn't you learned how. If he broke bread and said a prayer vx saying a prayer then breaking the bread you did the same prayer in the same order your Rabbi did. "Follow your Rabbi so close that the dust from his sandals covers you" One day when your Rabbi was satisfied with you he would turn around and say, "Go make disciples/telmuhdeme" meaning that you are now a Rabbi yourself.

There were many believers...only a few disciples. "Many are called but few are chosen "

"You didn't decide to ask me but I asked/chose you"

 

[studentoftheword]

I agree entirely. However, many preachers seem also to want their congregation to remain spiritual infants.

Such a True Statement here ----FOLKS -----------so sad but so true -----

Most Ministers themselves are not even in Christ ---there is not rule that you have to be saved to be a Minister ---

My Brother is a Minister and he is Saved ------and when he entered seminary school he said by the time he left there he was doubting everything he thought was true ------

The people in the pews rely on their ministers to preach the truth -----and they themselves don't know what the truth is -----

 

[SilverFox7]

While reading some bible commentary today, the writer presented an interesting viewpoint. He described the term "disciple" as being broader in scope than "believer." I have always thought of it as the other way around.

Yet, from a historical, biblical viewpoint, I can see where he got this idea. The word disciple in the Gospels did not carry the same connotation it does today.

In 2023, we view disciples as both believers and dedicated pupils of Jesus. But until His death, burial, and resurrection, these first disciples only remained students.

Sure, they believed some aspects of the Gospel, but until Christ revealed Himself alive after His death on the cross, I don't think we could label them "truly saved." I also believe this is why Easter is such an important holiday. As with the first disciples, we must affirm his resurrection before any of it makes sense.

I don't think you can become a disciple without being a true believer. Conversely, I don't think anyone can become an effective believer without being a true disciple.

What are your thoughts?

I like the idea of being both a believer and disciple of Jesus Christ today. The two words could be used as synonyms of each other, and I wouldn't have a problem with that as a scholar and teacher.

Yet, as you noted, both words carry different connotations. Disciple implies that I am a student and follower of Jesus. Believer means Jesus and His teachings have become a part of my being (mind, heart, and soul).

I think you hit the nail on the head with the statement:

"I don't think you can become a disciple without being a true believer. Conversely, I don't think anyone can become an effective believer without being a true disciple."

The disciples did not become true believers until they were endowed with the gift of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. Look at how all of them deserted Jesus at Gethsemane. We need the power of God at work in our hearts to become "saved" and produce good fruit where our belief (faith) will carry us through any trials and tribulations by the grace and power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Seeking-the-Truth]

Very interesting question/topic. In previous discussions over the years with others on this topic trying, as we are, to understand what the Scriptures say we encountered points that led us down some very interesting paths, i.e: when someone talks of Jesus, the Gospel, believer, disciple, etc, so much of what is said is based on our own perspectives that we had at that time on the subject. What “Jesus” are they referring to - the Jesus of the New Testament so many churches preach or the Jesus who fulfilled the Messianic prophecies of the Bible? The Gospel that Jesus taught (Luke 4:43, Matthew 4:23) or the Gospel of Jesus (the Messiah)? When we talk of believing in Jesus what is included in the term believing, His existence or what He lived/taught? Does believing become a lifestyle or simply a mental acceptance and a profession of faith with a return to our own lifestyles?
In regards to this specific topic I think if you truly believe in the Messiah then it's necessary to embrace who and what He is. Doing so, by our actions/transformation via God’s Spirit in us, we will live differently and conscientiously or not, we will become an example of a child of God just through our daily lives - becoming to varying degrees of maturation - a disciple.

 

[Thusiserve]

Such a True Statement here ----FOLKS -----------so sad but so true -----

Most Ministers themselves are not even in Christ ---there is not rule that you have to be saved to be a Minister ---

My Brother is a Minister and he is Saved ------and when he entered seminary school he said by the time he left there he was doubting everything he thought was true ------

The people in the pews rely on their ministers to preach the truth -----and they themselves don't know what the truth is -----

Have you been to 70 churches? 700? 7000?
I'm just wondering why such a blanket statement?

 

[studentoftheword]

Have you been to 70 churches? 700? 7000?
I'm just wondering why such a blanket statement?

I have been in several Churches and I know my scripture well enough to know if the Minister is Preaching God's word or His own word -----The Holy Spirit will Never veer you from the Scripture ----

If I hear a Minister teaching his church that all they need to do is Love your neighbour and do good to people and your saved _--- i run Forest run from that Church -----

The First Command is to Agape God ---then the 2nd Command is to serve your neighbour-----

Serving your neighbour will not Save you ---Going to Church ---will not save you ---

This is a clue the Minister is not saved themselves ------so get away from that Church -----

 

[Thusiserve]

I have been in several Churches and I know my scripture well enough to know if the Minister is Preaching God's word or His own word -----The Holy Spirit will Never veer you from the Scripture ----

If I hear a Minister teaching his church that all they need to do is Love your neighbour and do good to people and your saved _--- i run Forest run from that Church -----

The First Command is to Agape God ---then the 2nd Command is to serve your neighbour-----

Serving your neighbour will not Save you ---Going to Church ---will not save you ---

This is a clue the Minister is not saved themselves ------so get away from that Church -----

Nice. I completely agree. Run!

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Answer to title question.
There isnt a difference.

 

[Gideon300]

Very interesting question/topic. In previous discussions over the years with others on this topic trying, as we are, to understand what the Scriptures say we encountered points that led us down some very interesting paths, i.e: when someone talks of Jesus, the Gospel, believer, disciple, etc, so much of what is said is based on our own perspectives that we had at that time on the subject. What “Jesus” are they referring to - the Jesus of the New Testament so many churches preach or the Jesus who fulfilled the Messianic prophecies of the Bible? The Gospel that Jesus taught (Luke 4:43, Matthew 4:23) or the Gospel of Jesus (the Messiah)? When we talk of believing in Jesus what is included in the term believing, His existence or what He lived/taught? Does believing become a lifestyle or simply a mental acceptance and a profession of faith with a return to our own lifestyles?
In regards to this specific topic I think if you truly believe in the Messiah then it's necessary to embrace who and what He is. Doing so, by our actions/transformation via God’s Spirit in us, we will live differently and conscientiously or not, we will become an example of a child of God just through our daily lives - becoming to varying degrees of maturation - a disciple.

Have you been to 70 churches? 700? 7000?
I'm just wondering why such a blanket statement?

I'm 71, saved for 50 years. I am in broad agreement. Of course, it depends on what you call church. When you look at the denominations, a number adhere to a social "gospel" that does not require preachers to be born again. I know a Pentecostal pastor that barely acknowledges Jesus.

Statistically, about 4% of church attenders are born again. That applies to the Western church. Where persecution is rife, there are fewer nominal Christians.

 

[Gideon300]

While reading some bible commentary today, the writer presented an interesting viewpoint. He described the term "disciple" as being broader in scope than "believer." I have always thought of it as the other way around.

Yet, from a historical, biblical viewpoint, I can see where he got this idea. The word disciple in the Gospels did not carry the same connotation it does today.

In 2023, we view disciples as both believers and dedicated pupils of Jesus. But until His death, burial, and resurrection, these first disciples only remained students.

Sure, they believed some aspects of the Gospel, but until Christ revealed Himself alive after His death on the cross, I don't think we could label them "truly saved." I also believe this is why Easter is such an important holiday. As with the first disciples, we must affirm his resurrection before any of it makes sense.

I don't think you can become a disciple without being a true believer. Conversely, I don't think anyone can become an effective believer without being a true disciple.

What are your thoughts?

Further to my previous comments, a disciple is one who takes up his cross and denies himself and follows Jesus. I've been to quite a few churches in the last 50 years. I know of one pastor who knew what this meant and who preached it regularly. I listen to several different ministries. There is nothing wrong with what they teach. It's what they don't say that is an issue. The cross is hardly ever mentioned.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

In 2023, we view disciples as both believers and dedicated pupils of Jesus. But until His death, burial, and resurrection, these first disciples only remained students.

Because until John 20:22, they were nothing more than lost sinners who were NOT (and couldn't be) infilled with the Holy Spirit, and they really didn't have a clue what was going on. Luke 24:45 indicates the effect of John 20:22.

I don't think you can become a disciple without being a true believer.

A "Disciple" is one who is UNDER DISCIPLINE.

"True Believer" is a imprecise euphamism which has many connotations, so meaningless in this conversation.

To be more exact, the better term would be "Born Again Believer" - a "Christian". A Christian is one, who by FAITH (Eph 2:8,9) has repented of their SIN, and placed that FAITH in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus to cleanse them from Sin and justify them. THEN with their eyes opened, they can Take HIS yoke upon them and learn of HIM - i.e. become His Disciples. Theoretically ALL Christians should be Disciples.

Conversely, I don't think anyone can become an effective believer without being a true disciple.

True - if you NEGLECT the relationship with God and His Yoke, then you remain a "Carnal Christian" not maturing in the Faith. There are Biblical examples. (1 Cor 3:3). That Church hadn't "Matured" as Paul thought it should have.

 

[notonmywatch]

You cannot backload grace with works to be saved.
We are kept by the power of God.
We are not saved by enduring, but by grace through faith.

Who said anything about backloading grace with works?

Do you habitually put words in other people's mouths and then argue with yourself?

I said that we must endure unto the end to be saved, and Jesus said the same thing.

Go argue with him if you want to, but don't expect to win that argument.

Matthew 24

9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 13

10And the gospel must first be published among all nations. 11But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. 12Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. 13And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

 

[JaumeJ]

Who said anything about backloading grace with works?

Do you habitually put words in other people's mouths and then argue with yourself?

I said that we must endure unto the end to be saved, and Jesus said the same thing.

Go argue with him if you want to, but don't expect to win that argument.

Matthew 24

9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 13

10And the gospel must first be published among all nations. 11But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. 12Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. 13And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

People tend to do the same with me. If we truly have faith we dtruly have works given us by the Holy Spirit, not by the mere minds of men, not even intellectuals. God bless you always.