No problem. Sometimes we just get so used to defending the position and because we can't guage body language, we can interpret things differently than intended.
Doctrine of Unconditional Election
- Thread starter brightfame52
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A Christian is wholly dependent on Christ. But we still respond. You cannot separate the 2. Paul still lives, but in unison with Christ.
I wonder sometimes if people get a little confused about the order of events, or if we understand
at all which experience is truly one thing or another. That people's own experiences vary from those
of others cannot be denied. I knew of one woman (a former member here) who said both her and her
husband went to bed one night as a non-believer and awoke the next morning as a believer (not on
the same night
). God opened my eyes to the Truth of His unconditional love and forgiveness through the cross of Christ long before I ever came to believe. I experienced it in a way that was so
profound it was life saving at the time, and some might say I was born again or regenerated through
that experience, but I was devoid of faith and did not believe the gospel. Nor was that the circumcision
of my heart. I am fairly certain that happened many years later prior to my finally coming to believe.
Many leave off the circumcision of the heart, meaning, it simply does not seem to be discussed as much
as being born again, regeneration, or they say it happens upon belief, as if the natural man can believe
without God doing some work in us first.
I wonder sometimes if people get a little confused about the order of events, or if we understand
at all which experience is truly one thing or another. That people's own experiences vary from those
of others cannot be denied. I knew of one woman (a former member here) who said both her and her
husband went to bed one night as a non-believer and awoke the next morning as a believer (not on
the same night
through the cross of Christ long before I ever came to believe. I experienced it in a way that was so
profound it was life saving at the time, and some might say I was born again or regenerated through
that experience, but I was devoid of faith and did not believe the gospel. Nor was that the circumcision
of my heart. I am fairly certain that happened many years later prior to my finally coming to believe.
Many leave off the circumcision of the heart, meaning, it simply does not seem to be discussed as much
as being born again, regeneration, or they say it happens upon belief, as if the natural man can believe
without God doing some work in us first.
Lovely post @Magenta ...
I believe God can call us long before we hear His voice...He is patient and long suffering ...I was 54 when He started to really get my attention , and He put a new desire in my heart to seek Him...I bought a bible and started reading , and within six months , I knew what a wretch of a sinner I was...I cried and cried for months and then it took me nearly four years to understand that I was truly forgiven...All the glory to God who saved me through His precious Son , our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Amen...xox...
Of course its Truth to it, it is Truth. Man by nature cant repent, cant believe, as far as Salvation goes, hes in a helpless state, dead to God
God has a chosen people whom He causes to repent and believe, and so He sends them preachers like John
Thankfully, salvation does not depend upon our understanding of it. It's not that I don't think we should attempt to find all we can about all things concerning God, but we all come with prejudices that arise from experience, teaching, and our own predilections.I wonder sometimes if people get a little confused about the order of events, or if we understand
at all which experience is truly one thing or another. That people's own experiences vary from those
of others cannot be denied. I knew of one woman (a former member here) who said both her and her
husband went to bed one night as a non-believer and awoke the next morning as a believer (not on
the same night
through the cross of Christ long before I ever came to believe. I experienced it in a way that was so
profound it was life saving at the time, and some might say I was born again or regenerated through
that experience, but I was devoid of faith and did not believe the gospel. Nor was that the circumcision
of my heart. I am fairly certain that happened many years later prior to my finally coming to believe.
Many leave off the circumcision of the heart, meaning, it simply does not seem to be discussed as much
as being born again, regeneration, or they say it happens upon belief, as if the natural man can believe
without God doing some work in us first.
Since salvation only requires belief in the Lord Jesus Christ, we should look for areas of agreement and gently persuade others as God provides opportunity where we find receptive hearts, undergirded of course by prayer.
Thank you sweet Rosemary, and good day
The mother of my best friend all through high school suggested that I read the gospel of John three times, and I did that as a non-believer, but mostly before coming to believe, I was not keen on reading Scripture at all. I also had Christian friends and I remember reading things like Ephesians with them and discussing it, but I have no recollection of how much if any I understood of it at that time. I only did that because we were friends, and I enjoyed their company and just hanging out with them; they really were lovely people, and of course they were interested in the salvation of my soul. One such friend gave me a study Bible on the occasion of my 42nd birthday. When I was baptized almost eight years later, she instructed the pastor to hold me down a long time because I had so many sins to wash away. LOL. My process was fairlry long, and some points really stand out to me. Even so, after what I believe was the circumcision of my heart, and I started going to church more regularly, I was invited to an Alpha Course through yet another Christian friend whom I knew in AA. It was while going through that, in realizing that the course was designed to convince people of the Truth of God's Word, that I also realized I needed no more convincing. There was no aha moment of Oh, I get it now, just, oh, I have stopped fighting God, I am ready to surrender. God had done much work in me already. Praise the Lord, for He is good, His love endures forever. Not for nothing do I express my gratitude for His patience and loving kindness toward me, in allowing me to survive the stupidity of my youth.
But the mind cannot be changed unless God does it for us, is your view correct.
Correct, Jesus as Saviour must give repentance in Salvation Acts 5:31
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Otherwise men cant repent.
Is believing Jesus Christ died for all without exception belief in the Jesus Christ the scripture sets forth ?
1. Give/grant repentance “God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth” (2 Tim. 2:25) is being given the opportunity.
People are NOT given the action.
God is not doing that action for them.
2. This is to a group not an individual, so let's not conflate.
God grants opportunity to everyone.
He doesn’t want “any” to perish but for “all” to come to repentance (2 Pet. 3:9).
Are you asking if there are certain things delineated that should be believed, or that there is something in addition to believing?
It is so very interesting how differently we walked up to that point, even with the many similarities, such as being delivered from alcoholism and addiction. I cried out to the God I did not believe in for help when I was 39, and was almost immediately relieved of the desire to use mind and mood altering substances after 24 years of such. I was a seeker for many years, but very much averse to the Bible and that God, even after He revealed His love and forgiveness to me when I was 33, when I was in such a broken state after the dissolution of my marriage. I did treasure that which was imparted to me, even as I continued to reject the Giver. My church family always laugh good naturally at how I walked away from that experience thinking along the lines of how wonderful it was to know I was loved and forgiven... too bad it had to happen in a church. I had gone to a neighbourhood church around Passover right after the failure of my marriage to see a movie on the life of Christ based on the Gospel of Luke. And yes, imparted to me along with the experience of His unconditional love and forgiveness through the cross of Christ, was the knowledge that I was a sinner, and that I was to the uttermost unworthy of that which He was granting to me. I wept.
Not to interrupt but read 2 Pet 1:1 to see who Peter was talking to and about in 2 Pet 3:9. The "us-ward" was not intended
as everyone.
[2Pe 1:1 KJV]
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
Thats false, its not mere opportunity, its repentance given. And its given only to Gods Elect, also called Israel in Acts 5:31
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Im asking is one believing in the Jesus presented in the scripture, who came strictly to save His People from their sins as announced Matt 1:21
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Or are they believing in the false jesus manufactured by man, that jesus who died for everyone and provides them an opportunity to get saved ?