unclean animals? Are we Required to keep food laws under the new covenant?

[ServantoftheMostHigh]

Not only that passage, as previously provided in Video and Powerpoint.

I guess I'm a slow white boy. Do you think we are required by Jesus to only eat fruit and vegetables in this age?

Jesus was still on earth, in the Courtyard service (where animal sacrifice takes place), not having entered into the Heavenly Holy or Most Holy place services yet, where things change.

So, when did Jesus enter the Holy of Holies?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I read this thread an hoped that you would reply to it.

Regarding the quote from another member: "The Unclean... are never sanctified in all the Bible."

I would say: except when they were like in the case of the leper.

In Leviticus this is written about the leper: "And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean. 46 All the days wherein the plague shall be in him he shall be defiled; he is unclean: he shall dwell alone; without the camp shall his habitation be."

But Jesus, demonstrating a new and living way received the leper thus:
"When He had come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed Him. And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.” Then Jesus put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately his leprosy was cleansed."

Peter, still legally-minded and bull-headed, needed the Lord to show him a vision in order to change his mind about gentiles. So, the Lord showed Peter a vision of traditionally and legally "unclean" things, forbidden to be eaten as food.

"Kill and eat!" said the Lord.

Peter, seeking to be justified by the law, tells the Lord he has never eaten unclean things.

But the Lord interrupts with the standard of heaven, the standard of the son doing only what the Father tells him to do: “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean!"

Notice, that God HAS MADE those things clean. How? Because the law of liberty in the Son of His love succeeds the law of sin and death.

When the Lord makes something clean that was previously unclean that thing is clean indeed.

But the greater issue is not about food, but about the gentiles. Where once the gentiles were not included in the family of God, now they are included to the fullest extent that Christ gave His life for all.

Amen

pertaining to gentiles amen you see the descendants of Abraham proved themselves to also be sinners like all the gentile nations who worshipped false gods so israel did as well all the sinful lives of the other nations became israels way also they were chosen then given a law to prove them and they all failed the test and broke the covenant regarding the land of promise to flesh

in other words Jews were chosen to be a holy people to God seperate from all others but instead they turned out to be just like the others sinners who weren’t holy do all the people became the same to God

wheras beforehand gentiles we’re excluded and only Hebrews we’re acceptable to God , now he has removed the flesh covenant and everyone belongs tonhom only because of the spirit of Christ in the gospel preached not only to Israelites but to every human for salvation of those who believe and become one new people to God no more Jew seperate from gentile but now Jew and gentile made one new people chosen and sanctified by Jesus one fold and one shepherd one kingdom and one king , one people , one spirit ,one Lord and God

“Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; that at that time ( ot covenant excluded gentiles just because they were gentiles ) ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;

for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, ( gentiles ) and to them that were nigh. ( Jews )

For through him we both ( Jew and gentile ) have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:11-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gentiles we’re unclean and excused by the law you had to be a descendant of Abraham or be a convert and adhere to circumcision and complete obedience to the law of Moses in order to belong to Gods covenant made through Moses with the children of Israel at Sinai and also at horeb in the desert

Gentiles are every other people and tribe and nation on earth that isn’t born of Abraham’s flesh and blood.

because they also proved stiff necked sinners who didn’t honor God and worshipped other gods now we are offered Abraham’s true spiritual and eternal inheritance that was promised in Christ we are abrahans seed because of Jesus now not because of the flesh

We have to see aBrahmans children like this now

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.( Abraham’s seed are those God claims as his children )

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Because we are now identified by the spirit and not the flesh we have to have a covenant that teaches and guides and leads our inner spirit

(The flesh commandment )

“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

(The spiritual commandment )

but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

By following the spiritual commandment. We will never commit adultery

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16, 18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we follow the spirit

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

Then we’re not going to ever be led into commiting adultery if we just say “ don’t commit adultery “ we aren’t helping ourselves solve the issue just restraining what’s inside the lust that leads us to adultery

If we look at the spiritual command “ keep your mind and heart from lustful intentions and ideas or your commiting adultery of the heart “

were never going to get pet that if we’re following and heeding Jesus word and it’s going to keep us from ever being dragged into adulterous actions

just one example but the gospel is teaching our spirit and renewing our hearts and enabling us to overcome sin and death by merely hearing and following the spirit of Christ this not based on my blood and flesh but in Jesus the true Israels flesh and blood and my faith in him by his words of life and salvation in the gospel

Any person that believes the gospel is of the same family the family of God through Abraham the father of many nations of the lord

 

[Aaron56]

pertaining to gentiles amen you see the descendants of Abraham proved themselves to also be sinners like all the gentile nations who worshipped false gods so israel did as well all the sinful lives of the other nations became israels way also they were chosen then given a law to prove them and they all failed the test and broke the covenant regarding the land of promise to flesh

in other words Jews were chosen to be a holy people to God seperate from all others but instead they turned out to be just like the others sinners who weren’t holy do all the people became the same to God

wheras beforehand gentiles we’re excluded and only Hebrews we’re acceptable to God , now he has removed the flesh covenant and everyone belongs tonhom only because of the spirit of Christ in the gospel preached not only to Israelites but to every human for salvation of those who believe and become one new people to God no more Jew seperate from gentile but now Jew and gentile made one new people chosen and sanctified by Jesus one fold and one shepherd one kingdom and one king , one people , one spirit ,one Lord and God

“Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; that at that time ( ot covenant excluded gentiles just because they were gentiles ) ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;

for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, ( gentiles ) and to them that were nigh. ( Jews )

For through him we both ( Jew and gentile ) have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:11-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gentiles we’re unclean and excused by the law you had to be a descendant of Abraham or be a convert and adhere to circumcision and complete obedience to the law of Moses in order to belong to Gods covenant made through Moses with the children of Israel at Sinai and also at horeb in the desert

Gentiles are every other people and tribe and nation on earth that isn’t born of Abraham’s flesh and blood.

because they also proved stiff necked sinners who didn’t honor God and worshipped other gods now we are offered Abraham’s true spiritual and eternal inheritance that was promised in Christ we are abrahans seed because of Jesus now not because of the flesh

We have to see aBrahmans children like this now

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.( Abraham’s seed are those God claims as his children )

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Because we are now identified by the spirit and not the flesh we have to have a covenant that teaches and guides and leads our inner spirit

(The flesh commandment )

“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

(The spiritual commandment )

but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

By following the spiritual commandment. We will never commit adultery

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16, 18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we follow the spirit

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

Then we’re not going to ever be led into commiting adultery if we just say “ don’t commit adultery “ we aren’t helping ourselves solve the issue just restraining what’s inside the lust that leads us to adultery

If we look at the spiritual command “ keep your mind and heart from lustful intentions and ideas or your commiting adultery of the heart “

were never going to get pet that if we’re following and heeding Jesus word and it’s going to keep us from ever being dragged into adulterous actions

just one example but the gospel is teaching our spirit and renewing our hearts and enabling us to overcome sin and death by merely hearing and following the spirit of Christ this not based on my blood and flesh but in Jesus the true Israels flesh and blood and my faith in him by his words of life and salvation in the gospel

Any person that believes the gospel is of the same family the family of God through Abraham the father of many nations of the lord

Amen. God has a way of bringing back to fruition, His plans in a full circle. I think that is why many visions of heaven include circles.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Amen. God has a way of bringing back to fruition, His plans in a full circle. I think that is why many visions of heaven include circles.

amen brother always a pleasure and a worthy time spent conversing with you

“And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭11:6-9‬ ‭

And then to Abraham

“and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭22:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And then

“And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭49:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: And all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭22:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; And shall glorify thy name.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭86:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and so then finally the promises had come

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He is the God of all people from the beginning israel was chosen after the people became wicked and the nations were divided but they also were proved guilty so everyone was the same all had sinned and were doomed

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but then Jesus came preaching salvation and life to all nations who chi were scattered and seperate in the earth to gather out of all those nations a people for himself born of belief in his son and given life by his spirit and body and blood

 

[ItsAdventageous]

I guess I'm a slow white boy. Do you think we are required by Jesus to only eat fruit and vegetables in this age?

It's more like a leading us to greater and greater light on diet. It's progressive toward an end goal, from the worst to best.

So, when did Jesus enter the Holy of Holies?

Daniel 8:13-14,26, 9:24-27; Ezra 6:14, 7:1-28; Revelation 9:13-15, 10:6, 14:6-12, show that it was at the end of the 2,300 day/years (457 BC - AD 1843/44), which is seconded by the ending of the 1,335 (AD 508 - AD 1843/44, Daniel 12:12; Revelation 14:13) ending at the same time, and a third witness, by the ending into a 50th Year Jubilee (from AD 1793 (50 years later, 1843/44), as begun for the 3 1/2 of Revelation 11:9,11; AD 1793 - AD 1797/8, the ending of the 1,290, Daniel 12:11, AD 508 - AD 1798, and the ending of the 1,260, Daniel 7:25, 12:7, Revelation 11:2-3, 12:6,14, 13:5; Luke 21:24), and the 4th witness is the antiypical Day of Atonement, as found typified in Lev. 16 and 23, and Hebrews 9:8; Revelation 8:3-5, 9:13-15; Exodus 30:1-10.

 

[hornetguy]

I'm finding that some Christians that were keeping these laws as a thing of their conscience, but now more than ever there is a teaching out there that we are to adhere to food laws, feasts and other laws.

I believe 2 Timothy 3:15-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

As we can see God uses the unclean laws to show the fulfillment of them in Acts 10:10 -
10 And Peter became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,

11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

12 Wherein were all manner of four-footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

14 But Peter said, not so, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.

15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius (Gentile) had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.

19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he, whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?

22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feared God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by a holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

23 Then called he them in and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him.

24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and he had called together his kinsmen and near friends.

25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.

26 But Peter took him up, saying, stand up; I myself also am a man.

27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.

28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

29 Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?

30 And Cornelius said, four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,

31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.

32 Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the seaside: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.

33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feared him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

My understanding of this vision was that God was speaking to Peter about accepting the Gentiles and the proof was that God poured out the Holy Spirit on the Gentiles who believed on Jesus for the remission of sins. verse 43-45
The new covenant was being inaugurated through Jesus' ministry and the unclean was the type and shadow of the things coming to pass.

There is nothing outside a person that by going into him can defile him, but the things that come out of a person are what defile him.”[e] 17 And when he had entered the house and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable. 18 And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, 19 since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?”[f] (Thus he declared all foods clean.) 20 And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. 21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

Answer to the original question ......... NO

 

[shittim]

Jesus was clear that in Him, ALL things are new. A-L-L things sounds complete to me.
Best wishes brothers and sisters.

 

[hornetguy]

"Rise, Peter, kill and eat".... that seems pretty clear, as well.

 

[ItsAdventageous]

Jesus was clear that in Him, ALL things are new. A-L-L things sounds complete to me.
Best wishes brothers and sisters.

Oh, you mean like original Eden, where there was no animal death and mankind was given the fruit of the trees, and herbs? Like that "ALL things are new. A-L-L things ..."?

 

[ItsAdventageous]

"Rise, Peter, kill and eat".... that seems pretty clear, as well.

Context:

Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

Act 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

Act 10:17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

Act 10:18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.

Act 10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Act 11:8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.

Act 11:10 And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.

Act 11:11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.

Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

 

[hornetguy]

Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

Yes, Peter was a Jew... that was their old law. God was trying to SHOW him that the old law did not take precedence over the new law that Jesus brought and instituted.
Again, pretty simple, unless you are trying to fit scripture to fit YOUR narrative.

Oh, you mean like original Eden, where there was no animal death and mankind was given the fruit of the trees, and herbs? Like that "ALL things are new. A-L-L things ..."?

Yes... up until after the flood.

This is Genesis 9, in a more readable English version....

3 Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I have given everything to you, as I gave the green plant.

 

[ItsAdventageous]

Yes, Peter was a Jew...

Physically, Peter was a "jew". In heart, he was a Christian.

Luk_22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.​

​

It's amazing when Peter says other things, suddenly he';s a "Christian", but when it comes to this and diet, suddenly, years after the resurrection of Jesus Christ from Olivet, he's a "Jew".

Rubbish.

that was their old law.

No, again. It goes way back, even to Noah (and yeah even before).

Gen_7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

Gen_7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,

And, as I have said before, the clean and unclean still exist in the NT as stated by Christians, in AD 90ish and after (drawing from the natural to spiritual, 1 Cor. 15:46).

​

Rev_16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.​

​

Rev_18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.​

​

Even in Isaiah, he foretold the endtime destruction because of wrongful diet:

Isa_66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.​

There are other texts, as my previous video showed. Peter himself cites the Lev. and Deut. health law, here:

​

1Pe_1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;​

​

1Pe_1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.​

The Health laws didn't change, at all. But I'll wait for someone to eventually cite (wrongfully) Hebrews 7:12, or some such.

God was trying to SHOW him that the old law did not take precedence over the new law that Jesus brought and instituted.

Well, what a terrible imagination you have, as the texts of Acts 10-11 nowhere state, neither imply, anything of what you just stated. I mean, I even highlighted the text for you, and everyone.

Again, pretty simple, unless you are trying to fit scripture to fit YOUR narrative.

It is, the other way round, and I will simply leave the texts as I cited them, in evidence, as they need no futher comment from me, but plainly state what they do, and it is yourself and others that needs to make it say what you just implied they say, when then clearly do not in English, or koine Greek.

Yes... up until after the flood.

This is Genesis 9, in a more readable English version....

3 Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I have given everything to you, as I gave the green plant.

Again, you misunderstand Genesis 9. It was given in emergency, temporary, fashion.

Noah was to be husbandman of the field, and plant vineyards, and fruit trees:

Gen_9:20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:​

God makes clear distinction between what was food that was eaten and what was not:

Gen 6:21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.​

After the Flood, in the emergency situation, when there were no trees growing on the earth due to the flood, and all the vegetation was washed away, Noah had to have time to plant and grow.

The (clean, not unclean) animals were given as an emergency measure, and to shorten the long lifesspan of sinful man.

Gen 9:5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.​

The separation between the clean and unclean is seen here also, as there was a stipulation, a corollary:

Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.​

Yet, even among those things, there were things they were not to eat, such as the "tares" and "thorns", which came about due to sin.

Gen_3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;​

So the distinction between that which is good for food, and that which is not, is seen previously, and God made sure Noah was aware of the distinction still.

Even in the wildnerss of Moses, God was leading them back to a plant diet (except for the feasts, sacrifices of the Temple/Sanctuary, and even in Daniel's case, Daniel 1 (many days and years) & 10, he went three weeks (during Abib/Nisan, during the time of Passover and etc, without such)), with the manna, and water from the rock, and in the promised land they were to plant vineyards and eat the fruit of the trees.

God speaks of these things in 1 Cor 10, Psa. 78 and Num. 11. As it was then, so it is to be so now.

 

[hornetguy]

Again, you misunderstand Genesis 9. It was given in emergency, temporary, fashion.

Well, what a terrible imagination you have,

pot, meet kettle.

You have fashioned your understanding of scripture to fit what you want to believe.... I've found there is no rational discussion possible when people do that.

 

[Mem]

pot, meet kettle.

You have fashioned your understanding of scripture to fit what you want to believe.... I've found there is no rational discussion possible when people do that.

Sometimes I can go through a series of back-and-forth arguments reading only one side of the argument, because I appreciate any certain poster's thoughts. However, it might just be only to witness the point of his finally going insane.

 

[shittim]

2 timothy 2- 16-
. 16But avoid irreverent, empty chatter, which will only lead to more ungodliness, 17and the talk of such men will spread like gangrene.

 

[ServantoftheMostHigh]

It's more like a leading us to greater and greater light on diet. It's progressive toward an end goal, from the worst to best.

There was no sanctuary in 1843-44 that I'm aware of. 🤔I think you may have some dates mixed up again.(1843 great disappointment)
If you are referring to the heavenly sanctuary then here's what the Holy Spirit of prophesy says.
Hebrews 9:23,24: 10:12
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 7:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Hebrews 7
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Hebrews 9:23,24
So, if Hebrews say that Jesus already entered in and believers can also enter in by His blood, but Ellen G. White says it was in 1844.
Who should I believe?
Her "prophecies" must be subject to the inspired word of God and not used as a continuing source of authority.
It's hard to understand the word of God when it is filtered by the word of a woman, which is why we're not allow women to teach.

The Health laws didn't change, at all. But I'll wait for someone to eventually cite (wrongfully) Hebrews 7:12, or some such.

I think you're misunderstanding the spiritual application of the unclean meats. That's referring to the Gentiles and other nations( their sinful ways) even Jesus said through Paul "doesn't even nature teach you", but it is not required after that Jesus gave Peter the vision.
In regard to food, we have no mandates in the New covenant , but to let our moderation be known to all men and for our food or wine not make a brother stumble.
The old covenant ......... stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. Hebrews 9:10

 

[ItsAdventageous]

The old covenant ......... stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. Hebrews 9:10

See, this is what I refer to in misusing Hebrews. Those "meats and drinks" refer to offerings (of the "worldly sanctuary", and "carnal ordinances"), not the clean/unclean health law.

 

[ItsAdventageous]

Hebrews 7:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Hebrews 7
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Hebrews 9:23,24
So, if Hebrews say that Jesus already entered in and believers can also enter in by His blood, but Ellen G. White says it was in 1844.
Who should I believe?
Her "prophecies" must be subject to the inspired word of God and not used as a continuing source of authority.
It's hard to understand the word of God when it is filtered by the word of a woman, which is why we're not allow women to teach.

Indeed, please re-read the text you cited. Sister White was not the one who originated 1844. That was a calculation that came from Bible study in the prophecies in Daniel and Revelation long before sister White. Also, Seventh-day Adventists, and sister White, have never taught Jesus entered into the "holy palce" in AD 1844.

Heb 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;​

Heb 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;​

Heb 9:5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.​

Heb 9:6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.​

Heb 9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:​

Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:​

The Most Holy Place, or the "holiest of all" was not yet made "manifest" (revealed, or open for service) while the first compartment was in service ("standing") by the High Priest. When Jesus Christ ascended, he went into the "holy place", not Most Holy place, in AD 31.

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.​

In AD 1843/44 is when Jesus moved from Holy place (Revelation 1 & 4) to Most Holy place (Daniel 7:13; Revelation 3:10, a door closes (holy place) and a door opens (most holy place)).

You have mistaken what sister White and what a Seventh-day Adventist believes, and mistaken what the text of scripture itself says. Please consider it again. Go back to the type, in Lev. and then see the antiype in Rev.

Jesus, in AD 31, from Olivet entered the "holy place" or first compartment of the Sanctuary and had to do service therein in Heaven, before he could enter into the "most holy place" to complete the final antitypical day of Atonement (Dani. 8:13-14,26 & Rev. 9:13-15, 10:6, 14:6-12).

Spring Feasts:

Passover: Leviticus 23:5 [Jesus dies AD 31, First Month - Abib/Nisan 14th, the 6th Day, 3 PM]

Feast of Unleavened Bread: Leviticus 23:6-8 [Jesus in the Tomb, Abib/Nisan 15th, the 7th Day]

Feast of Firstfruits [Wave Sheaf]: Leviticus 23:10-14 [Jesus resurrected, Abib/Nisan 16th, 1st day]

Pentecost [Feast of Weeks]: Leviticus 23:15-22 [Jesus, in the Holy Place, pouring of the Holy Spirit, Acts 1-3, etc Revelation 5:6; Psalms 133:1-3, etc]
​

Long Summer [Rev. 9:5,6,10]

Fall Feasts:

Feast Of Trumpets: Leviticus 23:24-25 [Jesus, announcing coming Judgment, about to move, the bell is heard, 1833/4, Miller goes forward, Advent movement, Revelation 9:5,6,10; Genesis 7:24, 8:3; Luke 1:24 - “5 months”, etc]

Day Of Atonement: Leviticus 23:27-32 [Jesus in the Most Holy Place, 1843/44, specifically Oct 22 1844, the bell is heard, Jesus and Father moved from Holy to Most Holy in Heavenly Sanctuary; Daniel 7:9-10,13,22, 8:13-14,26; Revelation 9:13-15, 10:1-6, 14:6-7] KJB

Feast of Booths/Tabernacles/Ingathering: Leviticus 23:34-43 [Harvest, and on into Millennium and then into eternity; Revelation 7:9, 14:13-20, 15:2]​

We need to consider that the anti-typical/reality of the Feast of Trumpets, the Day of Atonement and the feast of Tabernacles/Booths/Ingathering cannot have happened in AD 31 at the Crucifixion of Jesus, at the death of Jesus thereon, at the burial of Jesus, at the resurrection of Jesus, at the ascension of Jesus, or even up to the time of AD 34, or AD 70, but could only take place long after those events, in connection with the 2,300, which the 70 weeks of Daniel 9 were simply a small part of, as is the 1,260, 1,290 and 1,335.

See Hebrews 9:2-3:

For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. Hebrews 9:2​

And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; Hebrews 9:3​

Paul is clear about the typology, First comes the First {part of the} Tabernacle, wherein was the Candlestick and the Table, even along with the Altar of Incense:

Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. Hebrews 9:6​

Where is Jesus standing in Acts 7 {part of the Church of Ephesus} and where is He seen walking in Revelation 2:1?

Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; Revelation 2:1​

Which of the two compartments of the Tented Sanctuary is that? It is verily the First, not the Second. Hebrews 9:12 {as also vs 24 "agia" and vs 25, "ta agia"} simply reads ta agia, which is the Sanctuary, and not agia agion, the Holy of Holies.

Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; Hebrews 9:25​

Paul is very clear about the separation of the two veils. It never says Jesus entered through the Second Veil, and did not then need to at His 2nd Ascension, being from the Mt of Olives. We see Jesus ascending in Psa 24 and compare Rev 4 and 5 {compare to Acts 1-2 and Psa 133; Exo 29:7; Lev 8:12; also needed to be 12, Exo 28:21-22, 29:5, 39:14; then the Holy Spirit was sent - Rev 5:6}. Rev 4 speaks of the First Veil:

After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. Revelation 4:1​

Thus John is taken in the Holy Place, the First 'Tabernacle' of Heaven, revealing the 7 lamps which sat directly across from {before} the Table of Shewbread which was Crowned, and had two stacks, representing the Throne of God in the Holy Place:

And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. Revelation 4:5​

Revelation 3:8, in the period of the 6th Church, thousand{s} of years {1800+ yrs} later from the First Church of Ephesus, another door/veil is seen opened in Heaven, while the first was closed, and this is also witnessed in Daniel:

And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; Revelation 3:7

I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. Revelation 3:8

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. Daniel 7:13​

Take Daniel 8:13-14,26, compare to Daniel 9:25, with Ezra 6:14, 7:1-28 and Revelation 10:1-6, and the scenes of Revelation in tandem with Daniel and Hebrews, the conclusion is inescapable. The 7th Year of Artaxerxes I Longimanus./Machrocheir was in 457 BC, go from there, 2,300. Go from there (457 BC) and count 70 weeks.

 

[ItsAdventageous]

is filtered by the word of a woman, which is why we're not allow women to teach.

You have a mistaken notion about sister White, and women. Sister White is not the 'filter'. She is filtered by scripture (KJB), not the other way round (Isa. 8:20, law then testimony, order of operation).

You have a great misunderstanding about women in the ministry, and what they can and cannot do according to scripture, even the very ones which you cited, even as the church is a "woman" and she was commanded to "teach" by the Head:

The context is about wrongful place ("authority") in teaching, not that a woman could not teach in the church.

Pro. 18:13,17 KJB

[1] Deborah was a prophetess [Judges 4:4].​

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[2] Miriam was a prophetess [Exodus 15:20].​

​

[3] Huldah was a prophetess [2 Kings 22:14; 2 Chronicles 34:22]​

​

[4] Isaiah's Wife, a prophetess [Isaiah 8:3]​

​

[5] Anna in the Temple, the daughter of Phanuel is a prophetess [Luke 2:36].​

​

[6] The 4 Daughters of Philip the Evangelist [Acts 21:9] were prophetesses.​

Do you think that because Paul says, "Let your women keep silence in the churches ..." (1 Cor. 14:34), that Christian women are not ever allowed to speak, teach, witness, prophesy, pray, praise aloud or sing in church at any time or even during divine worship?

Thinking so, would not only misunderstand the context of which Paul gives by the Holy Ghost, be completely myopic, missing the entire point, and would, more seriously, violate or contradict other places in scripture, even that of Paul's other statements nearby and further elsewhere.

Yet, we know that scripture (KJB) cannot be broken (Jhn. 10:35).

Miriam spoke, sang, prayed, prophesied, taught, praised, etc in the "church in the wilderness" (Act. 7:38), and each example found in the OT itself. Does the Holy Ghost contradict Himself from one place to another in your view?

What was Paul concerned with? Mere speech of any woman? No. Read the context.

Paul said, "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." (1 Tim. 2:12), which deals with not mere teaching, but with teaching in a man's (even Elder's/Deacons) place, usurping authority which belonged unto men of the church (as Elders (Bishop), Deacons, Apostles).

See also vs. 11 "subjection", which means 'under authority'. As long as the women are under proper authority, there is no conjunction or command against them, preaching, teaching, praying, prophesying, singing, in the church.

The women were not to go above their station as given by God, as the man (husband) is the head of the woman (wife), even as Jesus (Son) is subject to the Father (His head; 1 Cor. 11:3), which is why Paul identifies Eve's sin in speaking to the serpent, which was not her place to do, but was for Adam to do, being the Head of their union. She usurped authority of the man and sought to teach outside her sphere, station, position or office in the first church on earth, the Edenic home church. She could normally speak, sing, pray, praise, etc just fine otherwise.

When Miriam stepped out of bounds and tried to be in Moses' place, then she went too far (teaching in the man's place, usurping authority), got into trouble and was rebuked by God. In every other instance she was within her rights as a woman and prophetess to sing, speak, teach, pray, praise, prophesy etc in the "church in the wilderness", even publicly, and during times of praise and worship....

... Barak would do nothing without Deborah.

Anna was actually in the Temple (women's section) praying, witnessing and prophesying out loud about the Messiah and the Gospel.

Paul states that the prophets (men or women) are to prophesy 2 or 3 at most in a church gathering setting. Paul says, "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven." (1 Cor. 11:5) which shows women praying and prophesying in church.

The Bible further says:

"All these were the sons of Heman the king's seer in the words of God, to lift up the horn. And God gave to Heman fourteen sons and three daughters." (1 Chr. 25:5)​

​

"All these were under the hands of their father for song in the house of the LORD, with cymbals, psalteries, and harps, for the service of the house of God, according to the king's order to Asaph, Jeduthun, and Heman." (1 Chr. 25:6)​

Also:

"Beside their servants and their maids, of whom there were seven thousand three hundred thirty and seven: and there were among them two hundred singing men and singing women." (Ezr. 2:65, see also Neh. 7:67).​

Was Paul only speaking to men here? No.

​

"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord." (Col. 3:16).​

The gift of prophets and prophecy was given to both men and women in the church (1 Cor. 13-15; Eph. 4:4-16).

Philips 4 daughters are case examples, as they prophesied in the home church of Philip the Evangelist:

"And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy." (Act. 21:9).​

Anna, I already mentioned.

Paul said women can teach:

"The aged women likewise, that they be in behavior as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;" (Tit. 2:3).​

It is just that they are not to teach in a man's office or place of authority. The women spoken of, are the very wives of Elders (Bishop) and Deacons, and not they only.

Read the articles provided just below (Read response 1 & 2) , for many more examples and reasons are given.

As for the physical observance of sister White while in vision, such as super strength, endurance, no breath while speaking, eyes open, going down upon the face, and rising up and standing, etc, Have ye never read of Daniel, Isaiah, John, Peter, Paul, Balaam (when in God's service as prophet) and of the same manifestations among them? See Daniel 7-10, Numbers 24; Revelation 1, 4, etc., Acts 10-11 and 2 Cor. 12:2,4, &c. Paul was blind for three days after seeing the risen Lord in vision. Daniel was ill certain days. Isaiah said he felt he had no strength, like the others.

Why not study with me, instead of presenting an unstudied accusation?

Read response 1 -

Advent Review, and Sabbath Herald, vol. 21

Read response 2 -

The Signs of the Times, vol. 13

Feel free to also consider:

The Spirit of Prophecy (Bitchute) - The Spirit Of Prophecy by brother Aaron Earnest

The Spirit of Prophecy (Youtube) -

The Spirit of Prophecy (Odysee) - The Spirit Of Prophecy by brother Aaron Earnest

The Spirit of Prophecy (Rumble) - The Spirit Of Prophecy by brother Aaron Earnest

 

[hornetguy]

Looks like I bailed out just in time....