Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[ForestGreenCook]

I don’t think so. I didn’t inherit anyone’s sin when I was born. If necessary, I’m prepared to give an account of any of my sins as an adult, as should each of us be, but as to why Adam and Eve did what they did - that’s a question of their disobedience, not mine.

When you were born, which sin did you commit?

I lied to my mom, crying, saying that I was hurting, so she would pick me up and rock me.

You indicate very little humbleness.

 

[Magenta]

You have a whole new set of problems if that’s what you believe. Jesus was tempted in all ways as that we are yet he remained without sin:

Yes, believing what Scripture says does present problems, especially for those who reject it.

Are you suggesting Jesus did not die? If not, what specific problem are you hinting at here?

His reason for the incarnation was to give His life as a ransom for many.

His death on the cross fulfilled that and hundreds of prophesies concerning Him.

That does not mean He sinned. Just as when Scripture declares there are none righteous, no not one, Christ is excluded.

Try reading it with the natural man in mind. Would you say Christ was simply/solely a natural man?

Your logic is faulty if you do.

 

[Runningman]

Yes, believing what Scripture says does present problems, especially for those who reject it.

Are you suggesting Jesus did not die? If not, what specific problem are you hinting at here?

His reason for the incarnation was to give His life as a ransom for many.

His death on the cross fulfilled that and hundreds of prophesies concerning Him.

That does not mean He sinned. Just as when Scripture declares there are none righteous, no not one, Christ is excluded.

Try reading it with the natural man in mind. Would you say Christ was simply/solely a natural man?

Your logic is faulty if you do.

No that’s not it.

Your objective is to figure how Christ was tempted in all ways as we are, as a newborn infant, and yet without sin.

A question to get you going:

How are newborn infants tempted?

 

[Magenta]

No that’s not it.

Your objective is to figure how Christ was tempted in all ways as we are, as a newborn infant, and yet without sin.

A question to get you going:

How are newborn infants tempted?

Where does Scripture say newborns are tempted to sin?

Where does the Bible say Jesus was tempted as an infant?

I do not believe your objective at all.

Why do you think it should be anyone's objective?

Your objective should be to try to understand what Scripture teaches about the natural man and his need of being born again.

 

[Runningman]

Where does Scripture say newborns are tempted to sin?

Where does the Bible say Jesus was tempted as an infant?

I do not believe your objective at all.

Why do you think it should be anyone's objective?

Your objective should be to try to understand what Scripture teaches about the natural man and his need of being born again.

No that’s not it.

Psalm 58
3Even from birth the wicked go astray;
from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.

I hope we can agree that lying is a sin. So in order to lie a temptation must occur. From the point of birth, babies begin sinning. Also, Christ was tempted in all ways we are.

Is that right? Or is this verse not literal?

 

[Cameron143]

No that’s not it.

Psalm 58
3Even from birth the wicked go astray;
from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.

I hope we can agree that lying is a sin. So in order to lie a temptation must occur. From the point of birth, babies begin sinning. Also, Christ was tempted in all ways we are.

Is that right? Or is this verse not literal?

Are you saying sin requires a prior temptation?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Only his sheep can hear and believe.

All men may hear and believe, but all do not believe (John 3:14-18). So you too have a gross misunderstanding of salvation.

 

[Runningman]

Are you saying sin requires a prior temptation?

can you think of any sin that doesn’t require temptation? Does one have to be aware they are in temptation in order to give into it? I can’t think of any way to sin without the process James spoke of.

 

[Magenta]

No that’s not it.

Psalm 58
3Even from birth the wicked go astray;
from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.

I hope we can agree that lying is a sin. So in order to lie a temptation must occur. From the point of birth, babies begin sinning. Also, Christ was tempted in all ways we are.

Is that right? Or is this verse not literal?

That verse has been supplied to you more than once in these discussions. You seem to have changed your position.

I have not said any such thing. If you will allow this discussion to continue, you will see that there's good Biblical precedent that those who have not heard the gospel do not come under condemnation and that people are judged on the basis of sins committed voluntarily and consciously. This doesn't apply to people who were just born.

Again, the burden of proof rests squarely on your shoulders to back up your claim that people are born lost.

As you have now said yourself, and finally agreed, people go astray from birth. They are born in need of redemption.

 

[Cameron143]

can you think of any sin that doesn’t require temptation? Does one have to be aware they are in temptation in order to give into it? I can’t think of any way to sin without the process James spoke of.

The natural man does what natural man does. Is someone tempted to curse or do they just curse? Do they think to themselves...should I curse or not?

 

[cv5]

So in order to lie a temptation must occur.

A lot of people lie simply because they are intrinsically spiteful, hateful, selfish, unloving. Same goes with murder. Temptation has nothing whatsoever to do with it. It's in their nature to begin with.

Jesus was impeccably clear......out of the heart issues forth all manner of evil. Transacting sins for gain (temptation) is is merely a symptom of the underlying disease.

 

[mailmandan]

Do you believe your faith without works is dead like James said? Yes or no.

If my faith remained alone (barren of works) then it would be a dead faith. Does faith produce works in order to become a living faith or because it's a living faith? Does a tree produce fruit in order to become a living tree or because it's a living tree.

 

[Runningman]

The natural man does what natural man does. Is someone tempted to curse or do they just curse? Do they think to themselves...should I curse or not?

Depends what you define cursing as.

 

[Runningman]

A lot of people lie simply because they are intrinsically spiteful, hateful, selfish, unloving. Same goes with murder. Temptation has nothing whatsoever to do with it. It's in their nature to begin with.

Jesus was impeccably clear......out of the heart issues forth all manner of evil. Transacting sins for gain (temptation) is is merely a symptom of the underlying disease.

I don’t think that’s a real thing. People lie deliberately because it’s a choice. It’s more like some people have thoroughly exercised their lying skills and it may come more natural to them, but it’s nevertheless still a choice to do it.

 

[Runningman]

If my faith remained alone (barren of works) then it would be a dead faith. Does faith produce works in order to become a living faith or because it's a living faith? Does a tree produce fruit in order to become a living tree or because it's a living tree.

I’ll take that as a yes. That’s great to hear!

 

[Runningman]

That verse has been supplied to you more than once in these discussions. You seem to have changed your position.



As you have now said yourself, and finally agreed, people go astray from birth. They are born in need of redemption.

No i didn’t change my position. I guess you missed the point, though I tried to guide you. No problem!

People don’t go astray from birth nor are they tempted to.

A baby’s primary focus is just base instinct driven by survival. None of that is a sin.

 

[mailmandan]

I’ll take that as a yes. That’s great to hear!

Yes (rightly understood). Now answer my questions. Does a dead faith produce works in order to become a living faith? Yes or no. Does a dead tree produce fruit in order to become a living tree? Yes or no.

 

[Underwhosewings]

Can you explain what a baby’s sin is upon being born?

These baby’s are sanctified…☺️
1 Corinthians 7:14
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

Even though they were born sinners…
Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Adam and Eve had the glory of God upon them in their state of obedience to Him.
But in their disobedient state, suddenly they knew shame…..

Romans 5:12
…so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Some of those baby’s will come to an age of understanding repentance and of course only God knows at what age.

And some baby’s are taken by God….
Isaiah 57:1
The righteous perisheth,…
…none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[Magenta]

No i didn’t change my position. I guess you missed the point, though I tried to guide you. No problem!

People don’t go astray from birth nor are they tempted to.

A baby’s primary focus is just base instinct driven by survival. None of that is a sin.

I did not say it was sin. You keep missing the point. You are so misguided to deny that people are born in the
state of being a natural person in need of spiritual rebirth in order to be reconciled to God and escape the second
death. The Bible teaches this front to back and you deny it. Nobody should take guidance from you on this matter.

Jesus said, "You must be born again." You need to change your position and get this right. So far you are plain and simply wrong.

 

[Runningman]

Yes (rightly understood). Now answer my questions. Does a dead faith produce works in order to become a living faith? Yes or no. Does a dead tree produce fruit in order to become a living tree? Yes or no.

Sure I’d love to answer your questions.

can you tell me what a living faith is? I think I get what you’re asking, but I don’t recall seeing a particular kind of faith distinguished as living in the Bible and can you give me an example?

As far as a dead tree producing fruit to become a living tree, I’m thinking the answer is a solid no there.