Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[HeIsHere]

I think Judas is a prime example. In fact an intentional type of professor and not possessor. A hearer and not a believer. A pew warmer but not a worshipper. And several other things.

The foil to faithful Peter.

Yes for those who examine behaviour for proof of salvation.

 

[VARob]

Don't paint me with that brush. I am no Calvinist.

Most people have an aversion to being labeled.

The thing is.....both the choice of God and choice of man can exist contemporaneously....in higher dimensional space in a manner of speaking. The Bible speaks to both, sometimes in the same verse.

Wut?

 

[John146]

Oh yes faith and works DO go together. It's just that one begets the other. And NOT the other way around.

Works justify faith...that's why it's important to understand that the believer is justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. He accomplished the works in which salvation is possible.

 

[cv5]

God is sovereign in that He laid down the method of salvation and set up the terms.

And He also followed thru with the rest.

Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Rom 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Rom 9:16
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

 

[HeIsHere]

Works justify faith...that's why it's important to understand that the believer is justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. He accomplished the works in which salvation is possible.

You sure like this line of thought, It kinda makes me chuckle when you bring it up each time.

You are very pleasant about it, but I do think that it is His death and resurrection, and belief in Him and His work which justifies.

 

[cv5]

Wut?

Indeed, the infinite mind of God has that effect upon fallen flesh.

 

[HeIsHere]

And He also followed thru with the rest.

Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

Rom 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Rom 9:16
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

I have to look at these in context.

 

[cv5]

I have to look at these in context.

Here is some context for you. From way waaaay back.....

Rom 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Major crisis. Exactly 7001 true worshippers remaining. And it would seem that if God had NOT INTERVENED, Elijah would have been raptured and there would have been NONE left in Israel.

1Ki 19:14
And he said, “I have been very zealous for the LORD God of hosts; because the children of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars, and killed Your prophets with the sword. I alone am left; and they seek to take my life.”

1Ki 19:18
“Yet I have reserved seven thousand in Israel, all whose knees have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him.”

Isa 1:9
Unless the LORD of hosts
Had left to us a very small remnant,
We would have become like Sodom,
We would have been made like Gomorrah.

Rom 9:27
Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel

“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.

Rom 9:28
For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
Because the LORD will make a short work upon the earth.”

Rom 9:29
And as Isaiah said before:

“Unless the LORD of Sabaoth had left us a seed,
We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”

 

[John146]

And He also followed thru with the rest.

Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Rom 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Rom 9:16
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Romans 11:5, Paul is letting us know that all the Jews aren't lost, but there is a remnant that is saved by grace, the method by which God has chosen to bring salvation to the Jews and Gentiles by believing in Jesus Christ. Paul is one of them.

 

[Runningman]

Oh yes faith and works DO go together. It's just that one begets the other. And NOT the other way around.

One without the other is as useless as a body without a spirit. It’s literally dead, has no breath in it. Faith without works is dead. Works without faith is dead. James is clear man.

 

[John146]

You sure like this line of thought, It kinda makes me chuckle when you bring it up each time.

You are very pleasant about it, but I do think that it is His death and resurrection, and belief in Him and His work which justifies.

Yes! Christ's faith is how he was always obedient to his Father even unto death, the death of the cross. That's the faith that justifies the believer.

 

[John146]

One without the other is as useless as a body without a spirit. It’s literally dead, has no breath in it. Faith without works is dead. Works without faith is dead. James is clear man.

Thankfully, our works do not nor could ever justify me before God, but by the faith of the Son of God. His faith justifies the believer.

 

[cv5]

One without the other is as useless as a body without a spirit. It’s literally dead, has no breath in it. Faith without works is dead. Works without faith is dead. James is clear man.

The Book of James is essentially an exhortation to rekindling zealousness in believers to the end that good works that benefit the Church would be manifest.

The question of salvation is not even on the table. In fact it is never mentioned.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

You never stopped being your parents child.. Just like you never stop being the child of your heavenly father

No, I agree, I didn't, but I walked away from His grace. Remember the prodigal son? He chose to come back home. He was in a back slidden state, out in sin, but he returned.

it is his blood that saved you, it is his blood that continues to save you..

Still agree, but I can still walk away from the truth.

 

[HeIsHere]

Yes! Christ's faith is how he was always obedient to his Father even unto death, the death of the cross. That's the faith that justifies the believer.

Not convinced.

Agree, He was always obedient.

In your view did He have to go to the cross and rise from the dead?

 

[VARob]

Still agree, but I can still walk away from the truth.

But you cannot walk away from being a child of God. You may become a wayward child, but you're still His child.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

But you cannot walk away from being a child of God. You may become a wayward child, but you're still His child.

Sin cannot enter heaven. In the story where I end up killing a person, unless I repent and turn from sin I cannot enter heaven. I can not live in sin, live a continual sinful lifestyle and gain heaven. That is an abuse of God's grace. Otherwise what the pastor said that I quoted earlier in this thread is true. No matter what sin is committed, he believes he's going to heaven.

 

[cv5]

Romans 11:5, Paul is letting us know that all the Jews aren't lost, but there is a remnant that is saved by grace, the method by which God has chosen to bring salvation to the Jews and Gentiles by believing in Jesus Christ. Paul is one of them.

Yes. But the point is that God is intervening to get the job done.

 

[PennEd]

Still agree, but I can still walk away from the truth.

Am I right in saying you believe Jesus can't leave you, but you can leave Him, and in that way lose your salvation?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Am I right in saying you believe Jesus can't leave you, but you can leave Him, and in that way lose your salvation?

Yes, that is what I see the Bible teaching.