Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[ThereRoseaLamb]

There is certainly a difference between failing and repenting and failing and no longer repenting or even calling sin sin. That was the point I was attempting to make ever so poorly.
As far as leaving the faith and its causes we disagree but I like you anyway.

Same

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

There is a big big difference between walking the wrong path and stumbling on the right one. I suspect this so-called pastor is in view in verses 18 and 19.

Phl 3:17
Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern.

Phl 3:18
For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

Phl 3:19
whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.

One the one hand it's hard not to be angry for the pain he has caused his family, but I sat under his preaching and I am still stunned and heartbroken that he chose this path. It seems he has no fear of the Lord.

 

[cv5]

It seems he has no fear of the Lord.

I think he has a much bigger problem in that he has no love for the Lord. Or his wife. Or family. Or anybody else.

I do think that he will have that fear of the Lord you spoke about later on. Hope he repents. I really do.

 

[BillG]

One the one hand it's hard not to be angry for the pain he has caused his family, but I sat under his preaching and I am still stunned and heartbroken that he chose this path. It seems he has no fear of the Lord.

Hi,
Can we draw a parallel with David here?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Hi,
Can we draw a parallel with David here?

Yes, I believe so. Yet we know that David deeply repented and said "my sins are ever before me".

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

LOL, I'm not interested in you hypotheticals. I stick with scripture.

Hypothetical?

You said we must keep repenting. what do we keep repenting off?

I am speaking reality man.. You want to keep repenting of the same sins over and over and think God will not be offended.. go ahead

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

We're all hypocrits to one degree or another and sometimes sins can remain with us or pop back up at later times. What I would be much more concerned about is the lack of confession or calling sin no longer sin.

I would worry about this also..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

7 X 70?

let me ask you a question. If you admit that premerital sex is a sin. have you not repented of that sin?

Now. lets say you fall into temptation.

DO you need to repent of that sin again? Did you stop admitting that it was a sin? or do you confess that sin??

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

A thought just crossed my mind. Paul wrote 2/3 of a chapter (Rom 7) where he is indicting HIMSELF as a hypocrite.
If you analyze Rom 7:14 thru 24, Paul says "I" around 26 times!!!

I think it's safe to say that it is part of our pilgrimage here. A matter to be wrestled into submission, with a view to be overcomers.

Phl 3:12
Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.

Phl 3:13
Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead,

Phl 3:14
I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Paul worked for the prize.

The issue with legalism is salvation is not a prize that can be pressed toward, or worked for.. It is a gift from our savior.

 

[BillG]

Yes, I believe so. Yet we know that David deeply repented and said "my sins are ever before me".

Which is why we should not write anyone off?

Interesting though given what we know as we have the Bible.

Given that David under the law/OC should have been stones why did that not happen?
Do you think until Nathan was sent by God to David to confront his sin that David was not saved?

 

[ResidentAlien]

Hypothetical?

You said we must keep repenting. what do we keep repenting off?

I am speaking reality man.. You want to keep repenting of the same sins over and over and think God will not be offended.. go ahead

LOL, I didn't say it, the scripture said it. If you don't like it, take it up with God's word. You're misrepresenting what the scriptures I posted actually say anyway. So feel free to take you're pointless nonsense up with someone else. Later.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

LOL, I didn't say it, the scripture said it. If you don't like it, take it up with God's word. You're misrepresenting what the scriptures I posted actually say anyway. So feel free to take you're pointless nonsense up with someone else. Later.

the scripture does not say keep repenting or you will lose salvation. You do

Your issue is you do not understand what the word repent means. You can't repent of the same sin over and over. Unless you go from thinking it is not a sin, to thinking it is a sin, to well, it is not a sin.

You have repent confused with confess

you need to think more my friend..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Which is why we should not write anyone off?

Interesting though given what we know as we have the Bible.

Given that David under the law/OC should have been stones why did that not happen?
Do you think until Nathan was sent by God to David to confront his sin that David was not saved?

remember David was called a man after Gods own heart. And God knew he would commit the sin of adultry and murder when he called him that.

 

[HeIsHere]

Actually, the problem is thinking repentance is something you do once and forget it. It has to be ongoing. That's not my opinion, it's scripture.

"Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted;" 2 Corinthians 7:9-10

And in Revelation Jesus tells the churches they need to repent. He wasn't telling them that so they would get born again; He told them that because they already were born again but had gotten off track.

Repentance leading to salvation is one time event, this is very clear in scripture and irrefutable.

What is also irrefutable is that all sins, past, present and future have been forgiven.
Once you are born again we "confess" as part of our relationship with God, NOT for salvation.

There is no continual salvation. You are either a forgiven person or you are not.

Colossians 2:13

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven your all trespasses;

 

[HeIsHere]

Ah, there’s the root cause of the problem.

Repenting more than once, or as often as necessary, is Biblical.

Jesus speaking to a church said this.

Revelation 2
5Therefore, keep in mind how far you have fallen. Repent and perform the deeds you did at first. But if you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.

Do you want to find out what it means for Jesus to come to your church and remove their lampstand from its place? Personally, I’d rather keep in mind how far I had fallen, repent, and perform the deeds I did at first.

Born from above (which includes being Justified, Redeemed, Adopted and Sanctified) is a one time event like the natural birth.
Jesus said so.

Why is it that the scripture which affirms salvation as a singular event sealed by God's Spirit are are continually avoided by you?

Repeat.

Repentance leading to salvation is one time event, this is very clear in scripture and irrefutable.

What is also irrefutable is that all sins, past, present and future have been forgiven.
Once you are born again we "confess" as part of our relationship with God, NOT for salvation.

There is no continual salvation. You are either a forgiven person or you are not.

Colossians 2:13

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven your all trespasses;

 

[ResidentAlien]

Repentance leading to salvation is one time event, this is very clear in scripture and irrefutable.

You're delusional. You hold on to your false ideas even when the truth is put right in front of your face.

 

[ThewindBlows]

You're delusional. You hold on to your false ideas even when the truth is put right in front of your face.

What saves you? and what are you trusting to keep you saved? That usually is enough to show someones delusion, Can you answer?

 

[HeIsHere]

You're delusional. You hold on to your false ideas even when the truth is put right in front of your face.

I keep waiting for a sound exegetical proof for your position and so far I have received not one.
Just posting singular scripture verses apart from the surrounding text without analysis is meaningless.

Waiting.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Which is why we should not write anyone off?

Interesting though given what we know as we have the Bible.

Given that David under the law/OC should have been stones why did that not happen?
Do you think until Nathan was sent by God to David to confront his sin that David was not saved?

I believe a person can be saved with their last breath. I don't believe God wants to write anyone off.

 

[Runningman]

Hey RM,
I've been thinking about your definition of Grace and was wondering... you're saying that grace is favor, pretty straight-forward. Is this correct? I mean, that the grace that you or I might show to a person is pretty much the same thing that God would show to us?
Is that close?

And if so, when we add the word "unmerited" you seem to be equating it to "unconditional"? And that sorta confounds me. I mean, in my head, when I say that things are unmerited, I simply mean that I'm giving the grace that I choose to give because I want to... not because the other person did anything to deserve it. Does that make sense?

Whereas, "unconditional" tends to mean that I give the grace without any conditions/stipulations. Regardless of how the person behaves or whatever.

Wondering if you would want to speak to/about my musings?

Hi Ted, good question.

When I add the word conditional or unconditional it makes more sense to me because it reduces the word merit into a simpler and easier to follow idea where there are only two objective possibilities. Merits are someone's qualities and/or abilities.

I think of it like this: when someone is promoted it's normally because of some ability they have, so the promotion is conditional because there are qualifications that must be met before they are promoted. If someone was promoted unmeritoriously then merits wouldn't even be taken into consideration for the promotion; that would be an unconditional promotion.

Merits don't necessarily have to be a positive thing. People can have bad merit too.

So the gospel is for sinners. Being a sinner is a bad merit and it's a quality that someone has; there's a condition. The next condition is that sinners must respond to the gospel in the affirmative way. That's the ability to hear the gospel, understand it, believe it/have faith in it, and repent then God's grace is accessed.

If grace was unmerited favor then there would be no need to take into consideration anything anyone has done/not done and it would defeat the purpose of there being a plan of salvation to begin with. If salvation is necessary, but I have unmerited grace, then I was saved when I was born. This idea of unmerited grace just leads to Universalism and we both agree it's false.

So the idea of unmerited grace doesn't make sense to me at all. That's why grace is merited/conditional - I hope that makes sense.

Grace is accessed by faith
Romans 5
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.