Are deadbeat family member not saved? 1 Tim 5:8

[JohnB]

Funny story. You know the story about King David taking the census. Second Samuel 24:1. One Sunday I was standing outside the church and thinking about going out for lunch. I started counting the money in my wallet, to see if I had enough. This guy walks over to me and says, "You know what happened to King David when he started counting" He was serious. I just had to laugh and ignore him. He was not joking. He thought it was a sin to count.

 

[Cameron143]

Funny story. You know the story about King David taking the census. Second Samuel 24:1. One Sunday I was standing outside the church and thinking about going out for lunch. I started counting the money in my wallet, to see if I had enough. This guy walks over to me and says, "You know what happened to King David when he started counting" He was serious. I just had to laugh and ignore him. He was not joking. He thought it was a sin to count.

He would have a field day if he knew Jesus told a parable using talents with numbers assigned. I guess he follows the 0 commandments.

 

[JohnB]

He would have a field day if he knew Jesus told a parable using talents with numbers assigned. I guess he follows the 0 commandments.

This is why Paul said to study to show yourself approved. You are going to meet some very strange interpretation of scripture,

 

[JohnB]

He would have a field day if he knew Jesus told a parable using talents with numbers assigned. I guess he follows the 0 commandments.

The story of the land owner who paid his workers the same wage, no matter when they started. I had a friend from church, who owned a business who said, once you you agree to a wage when you're hired, that's the only wage you get. There are no pay raises. If you start off at $10 an hour, 30 years later your pay is still $10 an hour. To him the story is about wages.

 

[Cameron143]

The story of the land owner who paid his workers the same wage, no matter when they started. I had a friend from church, who owned a business who said, once you you agree to a wage when you're hired, that's the only wage you get. There are no pay raises. If you start off at $10 an hour, 30 years later your pay is still $10 an hour. To him the story is about wages.

I wonder if your friend kept his salary the same.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If they're saved they're saved. If they're a deadbeat their fruits are rotten and doesn't make them appear to be a good person.
But, once they're in God's grace there is no changing that.

In the case of the deadbeat Christian I think it is up to the church to correct their grievous error.

If we don’t bear the fruits of the gospel we aren’t going to be saved

“Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:

and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2-3, 5-6‬ ‭

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: ( producing good fruit )

but that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”( rotten fruit )
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To be saved we have to follow Jesus the lord and his ways we have to hear and believe him and then begin following after him we’re Christian’s that means a group of Jesus disciples

We don’t have to be perfect we do have to hear and believe the gospel and follow after him

 

[JohnB]

I wonder if your friend kept his salary the same.

He did not. He owned the company, so the story of wages to employees did not apply to him. This is why Paul said to study to show yourself approved. You have to understand some people interpret scripture to benefit themselves.

 

[Cameron143]

He did not. He owned the company, so the story of wages to employees did not apply to him. This is why Paul said to study to show yourself approved. You have to understand some people interpret scripture to benefit themselves.

I wasn't really wondering.

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

If we don’t bear the fruits of the gospel we aren’t going to be saved

“Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:

and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2-3, 5-6‬ ‭

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: ( producing good fruit )

but that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”( rotten fruit )
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To be saved we have to follow Jesus the lord and his ways we have to hear and believe him and then begin following after him we’re Christian’s that means a group of Jesus disciples

We don’t have to be perfect we do have to hear and believe the gospel and follow after him

That's works salvation and contrary to the gospel.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

That's works salvation and contrary to the gospel.

Its actually just scripture from the true gospel and is contrary to the hypergrace distortion of the gospel that’s so popular in the “grace revolution “ books sold today and daily devotional hypergracers websites

I personally will stick to the gospel hat offers eternal Life and grants repentance because I know this

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭

Im not willing to reject what Jesus taught in favor of a modern grace book sold by a millionaire telling me what I do right or wrong doesn’t matter. And that what Jesus the lord said about salvation isn’t right . I’ll stick with believing the gospel that’s actually in the Bible and the doctrine of my lord

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

Its actually just scripture from the true gospel and is contrary to the hypergrace distortion of the gospel that’s so popular in the “grace revolution “ books sold today and daily devotional hypergracers websites

I personally will stick to the gospel hat offers eternal Life and grants repentance because I know this

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭

Im not willing to reject what Jesus taught in favor of a modern grace book sold by a millionaire telling me what I do right or wrong doesn’t matter. And that what Jesus the lord said about salvation isn’t right . I’ll stick with believing the gospel that’s actually in the Bible and the doctrine of my lord

I don't argue with those who add to Christ's work on the cross .
When you think you have to labor to save yourself, go for it.

Just don't think you have a right to push that on those who hold faith in Christ.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I don't argue with those who add to Christ's work on the cross .
When you think you have to labor to save yourself, go for it.

Just don't think you have a right to push that on those who hold faith in Christ.

You’ve come to a bu le discussion forum and those with faith in Christ don’t reject what he said that’s not faith

im a believer of the Bible is the thing not modern fairy tales and ideas of why man doesn’t need to do anything God said to do to be saved or anyone’s invented reasons why to ignore what God said about salvation

that’s not faith

this is your quote that shows your conviction

“When you think you have to labor to save yourself, go for it.”

Here’s a quote from the Bible which i believe

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh in you

both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Do all things without murmurings and disputings: that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:58‬ ‭KJV‬‬

nowhere in the Bible does it tell us “ because Jesus died for sin don’t believe everything else we’re telling you “

the same letters that talk of grace tell us about repentance and judgement if you feel judged by scripture hats probably meant to change what you think d maybe start thinking

“because I have faith in Jesus why wouldnt I trust what Jesus said will save me and what he said would kill
Me ?

Faith is when you hear the gospel and believe what he’s saying will save you

“Just don't think you have a right to push that on those who hold faith in Christ.”

your in a biblical discussion forum and the Bible says what it says even if we don’t agree with what it says

those who have faith in Christ don’t ignore his word they hear it d follow after it because they believe him and trust in him

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

You’ve come to a bu le discussion forum and those with faith in Christ don’t reject what he said that’s not faith

im a believer of the Bible is the thing not modern fairy tales and ideas of why man doesn’t need to do anything God said to do to be saved or anyone’s invented reasons why to ignore what God said about salvation

that’s not faith

this is your quote that shows your conviction

“When you think you have to labor to save yourself, go for it.”

Here’s a quote from the Bible which i believe

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh in you

both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Do all things without murmurings and disputings: that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:58‬ ‭KJV‬‬

nowhere in the Bible does it tell us “ because Jesus died for sin don’t believe everything else we’re telling you “

the same letters that talk of grace tell us about repentance and judgement if you feel judged by scripture hats probably meant to change what you think d maybe start thinking

“because I have faith in Jesus why wouldnt I trust what Jesus said will save me and what he said would kill
Me ?

Faith is when you hear the gospel and believe what he’s saying will save you

“Just don't think you have a right to push that on those who hold faith in Christ.”

your in a biblical discussion forum and the Bible says what it says even if we don’t agree with what it says

those who have faith in Christ don’t ignore his word they hear it d follow after it because they believe him and trust in him

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

As I said, when you believe you have to labor to save yourself that's not faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross.

Works salvation is blasphemy.
And contradicts Jesus ministry and Paul's Godly revelation.

The same false pride doctrine that never brings peace for the fear it induced, also teaches the worker can do something to lose their salvation. That's the underlying fear.

And why not?

When believers in their own pride,ego,and self, first insist they must labor to insure God keeps them in his grace. Which they don't realize vacates the very meaning of grace.


Keep working. Don't preach to those who know the gospel.