No 
And I want to donate my electric guitar and amp to my church worship team
And I want to donate my electric guitar and amp to my church worship team
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Does God desire the salvation of all mankind?
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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Well, it served its purpose when you needed it then. Now you have good memories
No And I want to donate my electric guitar and amp to my church worship team
I have offered it... someone just needs to come and pick it up!
And I want to donate my electric guitar and amp to my church worship team I have offered it... someone just needs to come and pick it up!
I am sure God will send someone who needs it soon
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No, I'd say God doesn't wish for everyone to be saved.
He tells us through Jesus' ministry that no one can come to him unless he calls them.
Meanwhile, we learn our natural mind can't hear his call, understand the things of his Holy Spirit, because that understanding is spiritually received. The only thing that changes this natural mind blockage of all things holy is if God's holy spirit intervenes.
And even then salvation and faith comes by God's grace. So , his Holy Spirit has to intervene for us to hear him call us into his grace.
That tells me salvation is conditioned on God making it possible. Even in being able to hear him call us to his grace, gospel. Otherwise, it is all foolishness to those of natural mind.
A condition that remains on place unless God changes that.
This is why those in whom God changed these things are called God's elect.
If God wanted to save everybody he could.
But he didn't.
He tells us through Jesus' ministry that no one can come to him unless he calls them.
Meanwhile, we learn our natural mind can't hear his call, understand the things of his Holy Spirit, because that understanding is spiritually received. The only thing that changes this natural mind blockage of all things holy is if God's holy spirit intervenes.
And even then salvation and faith comes by God's grace. So , his Holy Spirit has to intervene for us to hear him call us into his grace.
That tells me salvation is conditioned on God making it possible. Even in being able to hear him call us to his grace, gospel. Otherwise, it is all foolishness to those of natural mind.
A condition that remains on place unless God changes that.
This is why those in whom God changed these things are called God's elect.
If God wanted to save everybody he could.
But he didn't.
These are all the same old tired Calvinistic ideas which have no basis is Scripture properly interpreted. Even John Calvin has contradicted what you just said.
Here is Calvin's commentary on John3:17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
"17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world. It is a confirmation of the preceding statement; for it was not in vain that God sent his own Son to us. He came not to destroy; and therefore it follows, that it is the peculiar office of the Son of God, that all who believe may obtain salvation by him. There is now no reason why any man should be in a state of hesitation, or of distressing anxiety, as to the manner in which he may escape death, when we believe that it was the purpose of God that Christ should deliver us from it. The word world is again repeated, that no man may think himself wholly excluded, if he only keep the road of faith.
The word judge (prino) is here put for condemn, as in many other passages. When he declares that he did not come to condemn the world, he thus points out the actual design of his coming; for what need was there that Christ should come to destroy us who were utterly ruined? We ought not, therefore, to look at any thing else in Christ, than that God, out of his boundless goodness chose to extend his aid for saving us who were lost; and whenever our sins press us -- whenever Satan would drive us to despair -- we ought to hold out this shield, that God is unwilling that we should be overwhelmed with everlasting destruction, because he has appointed his Son to be the salvation of the world."
Notice carefully Calvin's choice of words. He is interpreting John 3:17 exactly as Christ meant it to be interpreted. That God desires the salvation of all mankind.
Here is Calvin's commentary on John3:17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
"17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world. It is a confirmation of the preceding statement; for it was not in vain that God sent his own Son to us. He came not to destroy; and therefore it follows, that it is the peculiar office of the Son of God, that all who believe may obtain salvation by him. There is now no reason why any man should be in a state of hesitation, or of distressing anxiety, as to the manner in which he may escape death, when we believe that it was the purpose of God that Christ should deliver us from it. The word world is again repeated, that no man may think himself wholly excluded, if he only keep the road of faith.
The word judge (prino) is here put for condemn, as in many other passages. When he declares that he did not come to condemn the world, he thus points out the actual design of his coming; for what need was there that Christ should come to destroy us who were utterly ruined? We ought not, therefore, to look at any thing else in Christ, than that God, out of his boundless goodness chose to extend his aid for saving us who were lost; and whenever our sins press us -- whenever Satan would drive us to despair -- we ought to hold out this shield, that God is unwilling that we should be overwhelmed with everlasting destruction, because he has appointed his Son to be the salvation of the world."
Notice carefully Calvin's choice of words. He is interpreting John 3:17 exactly as Christ meant it to be interpreted. That God desires the salvation of all mankind.
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The logical end of Calvinism... "No, I'd say God doesn't wish for everyone to be saved."
Again a verse cherry picked from its surrounding text, Paul is not teaching the natural man cannot understand spiritual things, what he is saying in context is that spiritual things cannot be understood through human wisdom and philosophies.
He speaking to people of the Greek culture who held human philosophy in high regard.
Paul makes it clear here that the sacred writings can give the wisdom that is needed....
“…from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness…” (2 Tim. 3:15-16)
And yes people do and are able to seek after truth of their own volition and agency, the problem is human philosophies get in the way not because a person has no ability to understand.
Again a verse cherry picked from its surrounding text, Paul is not teaching the natural man cannot understand spiritual things, what he is saying in context is that spiritual things cannot be understood through human wisdom and philosophies.
He speaking to people of the Greek culture who held human philosophy in high regard.
Paul makes it clear here that the sacred writings can give the wisdom that is needed....
“…from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness…” (2 Tim. 3:15-16)
And yes people do and are able to seek after truth of their own volition and agency, the problem is human philosophies get in the way not because a person has no ability to understand.
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The logical end of Calvinism... "No, I'd say God doesn't wish for everyone to be saved."
Again a verse cherry picked from its surrounding text, Paul is not teaching the natural man cannot understand spiritual things, what he is saying in context is that spiritual things cannot be understood through human wisdom and philosophies.
He speaking to people of the Greek culture who held human philosophy in high regard.
Paul makes it clear here that the sacred writings can give the wisdom that is needed....
“…from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness…” (2 Tim. 3:15-16)
And yes people do and are able to seek after truth of their own volition and agency, the problem is human philosophies get in the way not because a person has no ability to understand.
Again a verse cherry picked from its surrounding text, Paul is not teaching the natural man cannot understand spiritual things, what he is saying in context is that spiritual things cannot be understood through human wisdom and philosophies.
He speaking to people of the Greek culture who held human philosophy in high regard.
Paul makes it clear here that the sacred writings can give the wisdom that is needed....
“…from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness…” (2 Tim. 3:15-16)
And yes people do and are able to seek after truth of their own volition and agency, the problem is human philosophies get in the way not because a person has no ability to understand.
Just a Biblicist. Now what?
What's the rest? In context as relates to sustaining passages?
''...that whosoever believeth in him.... ''
Belief comes by the grace of God! Not if ourselves so that none can brag they chose Jesus.
Because the natural mind cannot understand the things of God unless God changes their mind.
That's contrary to God's own words.
Are you going to accuse God of being a Calvinist?
''...that whosoever believeth in him.... ''
Belief comes by the grace of God! Not if ourselves so that none can brag they chose Jesus.
Because the natural mind cannot understand the things of God unless God changes their mind.
That's contrary to God's own words.
Are you going to accuse God of being a Calvinist?
Does God desire the salvation of all mankind? Hmmm...
Yes, He does... but why? What is God REALLY after? What would God gain by saving us?
He gains a relationship with others created in His image that can KNOW Him personally and LOVE Him. God is very jealous for a relationship with us but, He is also so patient to wait for us to choose Him.
If we are to truly love Him, He knows we have to choose to do so. Salvation is a choice between Life with God or Death without Him.
God will only save those that choose to love Him... Who would you want to spend eternity with? Someone that loves you or someone that doesn't?
Those that believe in Jesus Christ and receive Jesus as Lord, Savior and King have chosen Life with God and have chosen to seek to know and love God,
Our love for God will be tested... we will need to lay our life down for Him because that's what Love does... our life is not taken from us, we lay it down. That's the kind of love God is looking for.
Yes, He does... but why? What is God REALLY after? What would God gain by saving us?
He gains a relationship with others created in His image that can KNOW Him personally and LOVE Him. God is very jealous for a relationship with us but, He is also so patient to wait for us to choose Him.
If we are to truly love Him, He knows we have to choose to do so. Salvation is a choice between Life with God or Death without Him.
God will only save those that choose to love Him... Who would you want to spend eternity with? Someone that loves you or someone that doesn't?
Those that believe in Jesus Christ and receive Jesus as Lord, Savior and King have chosen Life with God and have chosen to seek to know and love God,
Our love for God will be tested... we will need to lay our life down for Him because that's what Love does... our life is not taken from us, we lay it down. That's the kind of love God is looking for.
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The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3.9
I appreciate your views and look forward to exchanging different ideas during our journey together here on CC.
I appreciate your views and look forward to exchanging different ideas during our journey together here on CC.
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