Do you observe the Sabbath?

[Inquisitor]

Mat 5:17-19
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Jas 2:10-12
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I think everyone of those verses is quoted without the surrounding context.

 

[Inquisitor]

Trust in Jesus's gift. AMEN.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Contintue in sin ??
Sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Jesus came to save us from sin. By faith in what Jesus has done we can be free from the sin.

Do you think we should continue in sin and have faith in grace? ???

You seem to be repeating the same verses, over and over again.

Will you continue in sin?

Of course you will.

Unless you are the first Christian in history that is perfectly holy.

Confess your sin and be forgiven, God forgives sinners, that's who He came for.

Do not be confused, the goal of all the Christian instruction. Is not sinless perfection but love from a pure heart.

Many churches concentrate on holiness and miss the law of liberty, the law of Christ, the Royal law. The new commandments.

 

[TMS]

we fail to enter if we are in unbelief.
we enter if we believe.
believe what? in being justified by keeping a ceremonial law? no, by believing in the finished work of God in Christ Jesus.

We are justified by the perfect righteousness of Jesus. A gift He give to us by faith.
They didn't enter the promised land because they didn't trust in God's ability to conquer and win it for them.
They were being truthful when they stated they could not defeat those in the promised land. But Arron and Jushua had faith in Gods ability to conquer.

We can't win the battle against self, by ourself. But with God all things are possible.

Keeping the sabbath holy is possible by trusting in God and letting Him work in you.

Do you have the faith?

There is a battle for our hearts, Jesus is more then capable of bring everyone into the promised land.
The problem is people are not trusting and obeying Him.

Rom 6:16 KJV Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[TMS]

I think everyone of those verses is quoted without the surrounding context.

Really.
Lets see....
Matt 5 is about the beatitudes and letting your light shine...then vs 17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. 21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Jesus even names 2 of the commandments..

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven"

The context tells me that Jesus didn't come to destroy the law. It even says that. Till heaven and earth pass one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law..

Plan and simple earth or heaven has not passed so the one jot or tittle has not passed from the law..

 

[TMS]

You seem to be repeating the same verses, over and over again.

Will you continue in sin?

Of course you will.

Unless you are the first Christian in history that is perfectly holy.

Confess your sin and be forgiven, God forgives sinners, that's who He came for.

Do not be confused, the goal of all the Christian instruction. Is not sinless perfection but love from a pure heart.

Many churches concentrate on holiness and miss the law of liberty, the law of Christ, the Royal law. The new commandments.

Pauls said it so well.
I'm hoping that you will appreciate what Paul is saying.

Will i continue in sin?

I will but not on purpose.

Like Paul ...Rom 7:21-25 KJV 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Do you delight in the law of God after the Spirit. With the mind serve the law of God.

We can by faith, through Jesus.

Rom 8: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

If you believe the law is not to be kept and is not able to be kept, satan has already won.
My flesh can't keep it but the Spirit of Jesus in me can.
And all glory goes to Jesus.

 

[TMS]

Confess your sin and be forgiven, God forgives sinners, that's who He came for.

Do not be confused, the goal of all the Christian instruction. Is not sinless perfection but love from a pure heart.

Yes i believe Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

All I'm saying is go and sin no more.

The law has not passed away and the law points out sin.
We have a saviour from sin but we are told to repent and serve our lord by faith.

 

[TMS]

I think everyone of those verses is quoted without the surrounding context.

Letts look at James 2.
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

It mentioned 2 of the 10 commandments and planly says "whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all".

Then it goes into faith without works.....

The sabbath is one of the laws that God commands.
So speak ye and do or act as someone that is judged by the law..

Sure Jesus takes our place. But we shouldn't use this grace as an excuse for lawlessness.

 

[mailmandan]

i will say it again, @Runningman -- if you been convinced that Hebrews 4 is about Exodus 20:8, you are missing the context; you are not understanding what is being said in this epistle.
it is absolutely not about keeping the law. it is about believing in Christ.

Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (NASB) Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" here is used no where else in the Bible! It amazes me how these sabbatarians still suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly Sabbath" when it is never used anywhere else in the Bible!

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:

Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.

SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=35458

 

[Runningman]

i will say it again, @Runningman -- if you been convinced that Hebrews 4 is about Exodus 20:8, you are missing the context; you are not understanding what is being said in this epistle.
it is absolutely not about keeping the law. it is about believing in Christ.

Just going by what the Bible says.

The context of Hebrews 3 carries into Hebrews 4. The example of disobedience are those who didn't enter God's rest due to unbelief and disobedience to a literal 7th day Sabbath.

This becomes more evident in Hebrews 4:8 when it's said that if Joshua, a mere human, would have given them rest then God wouldn't have spoken about another day. Humans can't give other humans eternal rest, but they can mark a calendar day off and set it aside as a day of rest. Therefore, the day of rest that isn't believed in is a literal calendar day that someone like Joshua could have given his people.

Hebrews 4:8
8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.

That this is a literal day that we have to observe is further evident in the context. It isn't God who is giving them rest, but rather they are taking their rest in God's rest, otherwise there would be no need to make every effort to enter the rest.

Hebrews 4
9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

The perishing via disobedience mentioned are those people in the wilderness for 40 years talked about in Hebrews 3 who were unbelievers and disobedient to the Sabbath:

Hebrews 3
16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

So since this is about a literal day and people not entering in due to unbelief and disobedience, would you say you are also not a believer in the Sabbath and also disobedient to it?

 

[Runningman]

On the subject of rest.

What rest is referred to in the following verses?

Hebrews 4:1-3
Therefore, we must fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also did; but the word they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united with those who listened with faith. For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said.

If the rest referred to above is the weekly sabbath?

How can there be a promise of entering His sabbath rest?

The verses say, "For we who have believed enter that rest..."

What rest is the verse above referring to?

The context is also in Hebrews 3, where people perished due to their unbelief and disobedience 40 years in the wilderness. 40 years in the wilderness, they were offered a literal 7th day rest, not an eternal rest. Therefore the Sabbath-rest is in reference to a literal 7th day Sabbath.

So do you believe in the same Sabbath rest that those who, because of unbelief and disobedience, perished in the wilderness for? The same Sabbath they perished for was a literal day; they weren't offered a Sabbath rest in Christ. So "Jesus is my Sabbath" is an invalid point for Hebrews 3-4.

 

[posthuman]

Just going by what the Bible says.

The context of Hebrews 3 carries into Hebrews 4. The example of disobedience are those who didn't enter God's rest due to unbelief and disobedience to a literal 7th day Sabbath.

This becomes more evident in Hebrews 4:8 when it's said that if Joshua, a mere human, would have given them rest then God wouldn't have spoken about another day. Humans can't give other humans eternal rest, but they can mark a calendar day off and set it aside as a day of rest. Therefore, the day of rest that isn't believed in is a literal calendar day that someone like Joshua could have given his people.

Hebrews 4:8
8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.

That this is a literal day that we have to observe is further evident in the context. It isn't God who is giving them rest, but rather they are taking their rest in God's rest, otherwise there would be no need to make every effort to enter the rest.

Hebrews 4
9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

The perishing via disobedience mentioned are those people in the wilderness for 40 years talked about in Hebrews 3 who were unbelievers and disobedient to the Sabbath:

Hebrews 3
16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

So since this is about a literal day and people not entering in due to unbelief and disobedience, would you say you are also not a believer in the Sabbath and also disobedient to it?

None of Hebrews 3 is about the seventh day. It is drawn from Psalm 95 which concerns Numbers 14, which I patiently wrote to you last night.

It is about unbelief, which is stated over and over - it was not because of lack of care to observe ceremonial observance of Exodus 20:8 that they did not enter, but because of unbelief in the promise of the free gift.

Go read Numbers 14. Sabbath is not mentioned at all. Instead of believing God, they grumbled against Him, saying He had brought them out of Egypt only to murder them, and refused to go. They tried to replace Moses with someone who would lead them back to slavery. So He swore in His wrath, they shall not enter His rest: and that rest is not Exodus 20:8

You are quite mistaken.

 

[Moses_Young]

JESUS is everything good.
He is my peace, rest, and life. He is bread, and water, He is the lamb without fault and our brother. Because we find REST in Jesus that does not mean the sabbath rest is gone.

The sabbath was made before sin.

We talked about Col 2 and the shadow ordinances, which do not include the 10 commandments.
Where are we told to replace the weekly sabbath with Jesus?

The same way we replaced physical circumcision with circumcision of the heart? No point keeping the Sabbath as a law unless you're going to keep all 613 of them. And I know you're going to fail at doing that.

 

[posthuman]

It isn't God who is giving them rest, but rather they are taking their rest

Compare what you said with this, which is the actual context of Hebrews 3-4

Numbers 14:3-4
Why has the LORD brought us to this land to fall by the sword, that our wives and children should become victims? Would it not be better for us to return to Egypt?" So they said to one another, "Let us select a leader and return to Egypt."

This is evil. It is the lie of Satan, calling God a murderer.
And like you, they had no faith God could give them rest, so they sought to create it for themselves, in bondage.

It is unbelief in the promise of God, and disobedience to His command to enter.

They did not believe He would provide for them - just like you said He won't give you rest.
So they called Him evil, and looked for a different savior, one who could only lead them to futility and death, just like you said you would make your own rest for yourself.


And what happened when they tried to enter by their own power instead of His?
Read:

Numbers 14:39-45
Then Moses told these words to all the children of Israel, and the people mourned greatly. And they rose early in the morning and went up to the top of the mountain, saying, "Here we are, and we will go up to the place which the LORD has promised, for we have sinned!" And Moses said, "Now why do you transgress the command of the LORD? For this will not succeed. Do not go up, lest you be defeated by your enemies, for the LORD [is] not among you. For the Amalekites and the Canaanites [are] there before you, and you shall fall by the sword; because you have turned away from the LORD, the LORD will not be with you." But they presumed to go up to the mountaintop. Nevertheless, neither the ark of the covenant of the LORD nor Moses departed from the camp. Then the Amalekites and the Canaanites who dwelt in that mountain came down and attacked them, and drove them back as far as Hormah.

 

[posthuman]

We are justified by the perfect righteousness of Jesus. A gift He give to us by faith.

Then I need add nothing, but only believe.
Therefore I have rest.

 

[posthuman]

The example of disobedience are those who didn't enter God's rest due to unbelief and disobedience to a literal 7th day Sabbath.

Absolutely false, and the scripture incontrovertibly proves it:

Numbers 14 comes before Numbers 15


In Numbers 14, God says the wicked generation will not enter His rest, citing unbelief.
In Numbers 15:32-36 is the first instance of anyone failing to observe the ceremonial sabbath cessation of activity. They did not know what to do with him because it had never happened save their disobedience with the manna in Exodus 16 before the law was given.

This comes AFTER the oath that they would not enter, so your assertion that it was because of failure to observe the ceremonial seventh day cessation of physical activity is clearly contrary to the record of scripture.

 

[posthuman]

Numbers 14 comes before Numbers 15

It's for reasons like this i say we should all be mathematicians, lol

 

[posthuman]

Who else agrees that this man:

Numbers 14:4
So they said to one another, "Let us select a leader and return to Egypt."

Is exactly this man?

Numbers 15:32
Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day.

 

[Magenta]

Seems pretty clear that Judas lost his salvation after having weighed much of the evidences and proofs;
Judas was lost. Can't be lost, like a lost sheep, or prodigal son, unless at one point they were not lost.

People are born lost.

Not according to scripture.

I feel a need to add another of RM's egregious errors to this list- one more recent, and that really does show
how little he understands of what Scripture teaches, while claiming to believe only what the Bible says.

You believe Judas was saved. There is no verse saying that. You claimed Jesus said baptism was righteousness. There is no verse that says that. You believe an unbaptized person's body does not resurrect. There is no verse making that assertion. There are more. Your lack of awareness of how your beliefs diverge from what the Bible actually says should not surprise me after all this time and all your false claims.

I do not even read most of what he posts. I wonder the amount of error one might find if they read more than I do.

@posthuman thank you for your patient and thorough explanations

 

[Magenta]

Jesus one time said to Judas he would have eternal life.

Chapter and verse please. Yeah, I found another one.

 

[mailmandan]

Chapter and verse please. Yeah, I found another one.

Eisegesis 3:16.