Fair enough, but just based off of the Biblical examples, Christians were observing the Sabbath and most importantly Jesus kept the Sabbath. I’m sorry but just reinterpreting and/or denying the Sabbath for whatever reasons just isn’t going to fly. All of the arguments against the sabbath I’ve seen so far create scriptural contradictions or make obedience to God out to be something bad.
Do you observe the Sabbath?
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I've heard this before... both sides of the "argument" seem to claim Scriptural support.
But just out of curiosity, what do you make of:
Col. 2:13?
Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
And...
Roms. 14:1-23?
14 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.”
12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. 15 For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died. 16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.
20 Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. 21 It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. 22 The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.
But just out of curiosity, what do you make of:
Col. 2:13?
Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
And...
Roms. 14:1-23?
14 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.”
12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. 15 For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died. 16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.
20 Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. 21 It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. 22 The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.
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In the first instance, I see it as saying that, as Christians, we shouldn't be bickering over the subject of any Sabbath keeping. It's an inconsequential matter.
It's touched on further in the second Scripture posted... "One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike."
And then further pointed out in other Scriptures, that we are no longer under the O.C., and have a much better covenant (w/better promises), and no longer follow written rules and regulations. God has written His "law" on our hearts... this is a recurring message in the epistles.
Just my beliefs...
It's touched on further in the second Scripture posted... "One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike."
And then further pointed out in other Scriptures, that we are no longer under the O.C., and have a much better covenant (w/better promises), and no longer follow written rules and regulations. God has written His "law" on our hearts... this is a recurring message in the epistles.
Just my beliefs...
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let’s just cut to the bottom line then: the Sabbath wasn’t voided anywhere in the entire Bible.
You may be able to create a theology where you can justify believing that, but in doing so, such as when said the law was nailed to the cross, you must also accept that the other commandments are voided.
You can’t have a law crucified on a cross in one sentence and then Paul turning around in another sentence and saying don’t sin, giving specific examples found in the very crucified law. That sort of inconsistency is problematic.
This is probably less of a deliberate attempt on your part (and others) to introduce voluntary sin into doctrine and more of an error in hermeneutics. I can guess that you’re probably anti-water baptism, anti-any works, and OSAS. Is it true? If so, I can see why you are anti-Sabbath as well.
As for me, I require biblical consistency.
You may be able to create a theology where you can justify believing that, but in doing so, such as when said the law was nailed to the cross, you must also accept that the other commandments are voided.
You can’t have a law crucified on a cross in one sentence and then Paul turning around in another sentence and saying don’t sin, giving specific examples found in the very crucified law. That sort of inconsistency is problematic.
This is probably less of a deliberate attempt on your part (and others) to introduce voluntary sin into doctrine and more of an error in hermeneutics. I can guess that you’re probably anti-water baptism, anti-any works, and OSAS. Is it true? If so, I can see why you are anti-Sabbath as well.
As for me, I require biblical consistency.
I've been busy for a few days..
Just trying to catch up.
The thing that many miss is that in the time when Jesus died, sabbath keeping was standard.
It wasn't controversial among Jews.
There were weekly sabbath and feast sabbaths. The weekly sabbaths have been kept without fail since Jesus's day by the Jews.
The yearly sabbath were on different days like our birthday each year. The Jews still keep these sabbath today, but most christians believe Jesus fulfilled the cerimonial laws and services.
If the weekly sabbath was a cerimonial law, it would be nailed to the cross.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
The 10 commandments are not against us or contrary to us.
Rom 7:12-13
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Just trying to catch up.
The thing that many miss is that in the time when Jesus died, sabbath keeping was standard.
It wasn't controversial among Jews.
There were weekly sabbath and feast sabbaths. The weekly sabbaths have been kept without fail since Jesus's day by the Jews.
The yearly sabbath were on different days like our birthday each year. The Jews still keep these sabbath today, but most christians believe Jesus fulfilled the cerimonial laws and services.
If the weekly sabbath was a cerimonial law, it would be nailed to the cross.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
The 10 commandments are not against us or contrary to us.
Rom 7:12-13
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
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Rom 2:11-15
11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
In context it is saying God is not a respecter of persons. Being a Jew will not get you to heaven, having a knowledge of things wont save you.
Practicing the law even if you don't know it, they are a law unto themselves.
11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
In context it is saying God is not a respecter of persons. Being a Jew will not get you to heaven, having a knowledge of things wont save you.
Practicing the law even if you don't know it, they are a law unto themselves.
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It’s explained in the passage. Paul said that people will be judged by God by the law… the 10 commandments.
Romans 2
13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
…
16This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
Romans 2
13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
…
16This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
While sabbath observers abide by the sabbath day, I remain in the sabbath, that is, I have entered that rest and continue in it. I'd say doing that is keeping the sabbath (or that "another day" God later spoke about referred to in Hebrews 4:8 'For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day'; that day is referenced as "Today" in Heb4:7 which is (ever) present, as also implied in Heb4:26 concerning approaching the throne of grace with confidence, i.e. entering into His presence. which is was and will always be forever and ever.
Sabbath means, to cease, to end, or to rest, and as mailmandan pointed out, in the Hev4:9 there remains, then a (sabbatismos) for the people of God, sabbatismos means "sabbath keeping" and considering the context that, in other words, although the people had kept the sabbaton according to keeping with all the LORD had spoken to Moses, there remains a sabbatismos (another day later spoken about, or a more accurate "sabbath keeping") for the people of God. That is, an abiding in His Presence.
What did Jesus mean in declaring, "“The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Therefore, the Son on Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."?
Sabbath means, to cease, to end, or to rest, and as mailmandan pointed out, in the Hev4:9 there remains, then a (sabbatismos) for the people of God, sabbatismos means "sabbath keeping" and considering the context that, in other words, although the people had kept the sabbaton according to keeping with all the LORD had spoken to Moses, there remains a sabbatismos (another day later spoken about, or a more accurate "sabbath keeping") for the people of God. That is, an abiding in His Presence.
What did Jesus mean in declaring, "“The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Therefore, the Son on Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."?
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Rom 2:11-15
11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
In context it is saying God is not a respecter of persons. Being a Jew will not get you to heaven, having a knowledge of things wont save you.
Practicing the law even if you don't know it, they are a law unto themselves.
11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
In context it is saying God is not a respecter of persons. Being a Jew will not get you to heaven, having a knowledge of things wont save you.
Practicing the law even if you don't know it, they are a law unto themselves.
Romans 2:14
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves.
Romans 2:14
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves.
It clearly states the Gentiles do not have the law.
Gentiles are a law to themselves.
Gentiles by loving others are doing instinctively what the law requires.
Gentiles were never under the law and especially the ten commandments.
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves.
It clearly states the Gentiles do not have the law.
Gentiles are a law to themselves.
Gentiles by loving others are doing instinctively what the law requires.
Gentiles were never under the law and especially the ten commandments.
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God judges us on what we know.
You don't need a law about not killing to know it is wrong.
If i listen to my conscience and not murder, steal, commit adultery or lie, I'm instinctively doing the right thing, without a knowledge of the law, I'm a law unto myself.
Most religions teach us not to lie or steal.
God has asked us to remember the Sabbath, and keep it holy. It is the only law that seperates God as the creator and the time each week is so valuable.
We can make excuses and say it doesn't matter. Like an evolutionist you'll always find reasons to not believe.
The command is there in the middle of the 10 commandments and God said remember it.
The sabbath was made for GENTILES too.
You don't need a law about not killing to know it is wrong.
If i listen to my conscience and not murder, steal, commit adultery or lie, I'm instinctively doing the right thing, without a knowledge of the law, I'm a law unto myself.
Most religions teach us not to lie or steal.
God has asked us to remember the Sabbath, and keep it holy. It is the only law that seperates God as the creator and the time each week is so valuable.
We can make excuses and say it doesn't matter. Like an evolutionist you'll always find reasons to not believe.
The command is there in the middle of the 10 commandments and God said remember it.
The sabbath was made for GENTILES too.
If Jesus gives you and me the righteousness that He lived (perfect robe of righteousness), we are seen as perfect without fault. By faith we recieve that perfect robe.
So the faithless are not covered by Jesus's righteousness, so they are judged by their own works and are guilty before God.
Do we make void the law?
Because of grace and mercy do we sin?
If Jesus said please remember the sabbath day each week because i gave all for you and love you.
Would you do it?
So the faithless are not covered by Jesus's righteousness, so they are judged by their own works and are guilty before God.
Do we make void the law?
Because of grace and mercy do we sin?
If Jesus said please remember the sabbath day each week because i gave all for you and love you.
Would you do it?
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Jesus said to pray that your flight is not on the sabbath...
If the sabbath was not important then why did Jesus say this.
If Jesus was referring to 70ad when Jerusalem was destroyed by Rome, or the end of the world or both. They are all sabbath many years after the death of Jesus.
Jesus said PRAY that your flight is not on the sabbath because it is important.
Jesus said to pray that your flight is not on the sabbath...
If the sabbath was not important then why did Jesus say this.
If Jesus was referring to 70ad when Jerusalem was destroyed by Rome, or the end of the world or both. They are all sabbath many years after the death of Jesus.
Jesus said PRAY that your flight is not on the sabbath because it is important.
The context often reveals the answer. Jesus’ mission wasn’t to come to condemn the world, though that wouldn’t have been hard to do. His mission was to save the world.
John 3:17
17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
That doesn’t rule out that Jesus cannot judge or that there cannot be any judgement.
John 5
22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.
John 3:17
17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
That doesn’t rule out that Jesus cannot judge or that there cannot be any judgement.
John 5
22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.
The sabbath was made for man..
Mar 2:27-28 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Man = a human being, whether male or female, generically, to include all human individuals.
The sabbath was made at creation before gentile or Jew.
Heb 4:9-10
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
As God did = God rested on the 7th day.
Mar 2:27-28 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Man = a human being, whether male or female, generically, to include all human individuals.
The sabbath was made at creation before gentile or Jew.
Heb 4:9-10
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
As God did = God rested on the 7th day.