Do you observe the Sabbath?
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You seem to not understand which laws you’re under and which laws you’re not under. This thread has been partially about that.
John confirms that transgressing the law is a sin:
1 John 3
4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
If sin is lawlessness, and if no one who lives in him keeps on sinning, then it’s true that no one who lives in him practices lawlessness.
So why do you refuse to keep the Sabbath if you admit the law (the 10 commandments in particular) hasn’t been done away with? Do you believe you’re voluntarily engaging in habitual sin by neglecting God’s Law that Paul, a New Covenant Christian, proclaimed he is under? And how have you managed to let yourself believe you’d be sinning by obeying God? Don’t you see that as a red flag?
1 Corinthians 9
21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.
John confirms that transgressing the law is a sin:
1 John 3
4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
If sin is lawlessness, and if no one who lives in him keeps on sinning, then it’s true that no one who lives in him practices lawlessness.
So why do you refuse to keep the Sabbath if you admit the law (the 10 commandments in particular) hasn’t been done away with? Do you believe you’re voluntarily engaging in habitual sin by neglecting God’s Law that Paul, a New Covenant Christian, proclaimed he is under? And how have you managed to let yourself believe you’d be sinning by obeying God? Don’t you see that as a red flag?
1 Corinthians 9
21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.
When I think of the Sabbath Day of rest, I think of a few things. First, I think of the creation story in Genesis 1-2. The creation story is telling a story of the creation of a temple where God would dwell with his people in a unique way. The 7th day marked the completion of this temple creation work and now other work could begin. God would rule over and through his people while with them. This kind of thinking parallels the other temples in Israel . But it also parallels Jesus Christ who was the temple of God, the source of life, and the one in whom people find rest. As a Christian, I rest in Jesus daily. Being in Christ, giving my allegiance to him, committing my life to him. Walking with him daily, is my daily Sabbath rest.
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We differ on every point you mentioned.
Your church has one commandment, because that is all you seem to talk about, the sabbath.
You do not understand what John wrote in this important chapter.
1 John 3
22 and whatever we ask, we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
24 The one who keeps His commandments remains in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He remains in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
What is the sin, the lawlessness, that John is referring to?
It definitely is, that is, according to John, the two commandments above.
Here is another verse from 1 John 3, which should allow you to connect the dots.
1 John 3
14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers and sisters. The one who does not love remains in death. 15 Everyone who hates his brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him.
Life according to John is the first commandment, believing in Jesus and life is the second, to love others as Christ loved us.
Failing to love others is the reason the law even exists. Love does not kill, love does not steal, love never covets.
You cannot even know God if you do not love the brethren.
Jesus annulled the law and gave us two new commandments.
Your church has one commandment, because that is all you seem to talk about, the sabbath.
You do not understand what John wrote in this important chapter.
1 John 3
22 and whatever we ask, we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
24 The one who keeps His commandments remains in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He remains in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
What is the sin, the lawlessness, that John is referring to?
It definitely is, that is, according to John, the two commandments above.
Here is another verse from 1 John 3, which should allow you to connect the dots.
1 John 3
14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers and sisters. The one who does not love remains in death. 15 Everyone who hates his brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him.
Life according to John is the first commandment, believing in Jesus and life is the second, to love others as Christ loved us.
Failing to love others is the reason the law even exists. Love does not kill, love does not steal, love never covets.
You cannot even know God if you do not love the brethren.
Jesus annulled the law and gave us two new commandments.
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And love obeys God.
John 14
15“If you love me, keep my commands.
Luke 23
55The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.
John 14
15“If you love me, keep my commands.
Luke 23
55The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.
Exodus 20:2 - I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Deuteronomy 5:15 - And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.
Exodus 31:16 - Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations asa perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.
So you are an Israelite who was brought out of the land of Egypt and are under the old covenant of law? You need to learn how to rightly divide the word of truth.
Deuteronomy 5:15 - And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.
Exodus 31:16 - Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations asa perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.
So you are an Israelite who was brought out of the land of Egypt and are under the old covenant of law? You need to learn how to rightly divide the word of truth.
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2 Corinthians 3:6 -who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.
Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Paul was very clear. You are still clinging to the shadow and seem to miss that the substance belongs to Christ. Our "sabbatismos" rest is found in Christ (Hebrews 4:9) in contrast with keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law.
There were a lot of rules and regulations (including a death penalty) that went with the letter of the law.
Which commandments is the body of Christ to "keep" (Greek word "tereo") - guard, observe, watch over? As I have already pointed out multiple times. The moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant. Also be sure to read post #827.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
Your argument about murder and adultery was a moot point. Misguided reverence and honor for God is not worshipping God in spirit and truth.
The plain words of Hebrews 4:9 says there is a "SABBATISMOS" rest (which is found nowhere else in the Bible) yet you continue to confuse this word with "sabbaton."
Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (NASB) Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" here is used no where else in the Bible!
W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:
Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.
SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=35458
So you teach salvation by works, but it must be all the right works? I know other works-salvationists who teach we are saved by "these" works and just not "those" works, yet it's still salvation by works in contradiction to scripture no matter how much works-salvationists try and sugar coat it.
Works-salvationists often quote Matthew 7:21-23 and claim that these many people that Jesus NEVER knew (which means they were NEVER saved) were actually saved, but lost their salvation because they worked iniquity, which is a false interpretation. These many people had the wrong foundation and were trusting in works for salvation instead of in Christ alone.
Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation based on works. This is why Jesus referred to these many people as "workers of iniquity." God does not see the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) in unbelievers, but He see's all of their sins which remain and have not been washed away by the blood of Christ.
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people in Matthew 7:21-23 were not true converts.
The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.
Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Paul was very clear. You are still clinging to the shadow and seem to miss that the substance belongs to Christ. Our "sabbatismos" rest is found in Christ (Hebrews 4:9) in contrast with keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law.
There were a lot of rules and regulations (including a death penalty) that went with the letter of the law.
Which commandments is the body of Christ to "keep" (Greek word "tereo") - guard, observe, watch over? As I have already pointed out multiple times. The moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant. Also be sure to read post #827.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
Your argument about murder and adultery was a moot point. Misguided reverence and honor for God is not worshipping God in spirit and truth.
The plain words of Hebrews 4:9 says there is a "SABBATISMOS" rest (which is found nowhere else in the Bible) yet you continue to confuse this word with "sabbaton."
Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (NASB) Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" here is used no where else in the Bible!
W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:
Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.
SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=35458
So you teach salvation by works, but it must be all the right works? I know other works-salvationists who teach we are saved by "these" works and just not "those" works, yet it's still salvation by works in contradiction to scripture no matter how much works-salvationists try and sugar coat it.
Works-salvationists often quote Matthew 7:21-23 and claim that these many people that Jesus NEVER knew (which means they were NEVER saved) were actually saved, but lost their salvation because they worked iniquity, which is a false interpretation. These many people had the wrong foundation and were trusting in works for salvation instead of in Christ alone.
Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation based on works. This is why Jesus referred to these many people as "workers of iniquity." God does not see the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) in unbelievers, but He see's all of their sins which remain and have not been washed away by the blood of Christ.
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people in Matthew 7:21-23 were not true converts.
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The 10 commandments were given to Jews. Following your logic, we don’t have to keep the 10 commandments, but that isn’t right is it? In Christ there is no distinction between male and female, Jew and Gentile.
Now then. Since New Testament Christians kept the Sabbath then why wouldn’t you?
Now then. Since New Testament Christians kept the Sabbath then why wouldn’t you?
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I'm sure these Israelites did rest on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment and we can't expect the transition from law to grace for these Israelites to happen overnight.
The disciples did not yet understood Jesus' death: Matthew 16:21-22
They did not yet understood His crucifixion: Luke 18:31-34
They did not yet understood He would be raised from the dead: John 20:9
They did not yet understood the second coming: John 13:36-37
They did not know He was going to heaven: John 14:2-5
It took time for the transition from law to grace to happen for the Israelites so Luke 23:55-56 has no bearing on the body of Christ under the new covenant with sabbath keeping. (Colossians 2:16-17) I will never understand these misguided teachers of the law.
The disciples did not yet understood Jesus' death: Matthew 16:21-22
They did not yet understood His crucifixion: Luke 18:31-34
They did not yet understood He would be raised from the dead: John 20:9
They did not yet understood the second coming: John 13:36-37
They did not know He was going to heaven: John 14:2-5
It took time for the transition from law to grace to happen for the Israelites so Luke 23:55-56 has no bearing on the body of Christ under the new covenant with sabbath keeping. (Colossians 2:16-17) I will never understand these misguided teachers of the law.
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