Does God desire the salvation of all mankind?

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K

kaylagrl

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brightfame52 said:
So you see, only a remnant were chosen, the election, the rest were blinded. The rest obviously were not of the election, duh
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The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, as it is written:
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.

If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!


All Israel Will Be Saved
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”



I'm not going to add a rude "duh" here but please include the entire context. Jews are blinded, for a time, until the Gentiles come in.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
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Nov 21, 2020
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kaylagrl said:
The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, as it is written:
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.

If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!


All Israel Will Be Saved
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”



I'm not going to add a rude "duh" here but please include the entire context. Jews are blinded, for a time, until the Gentiles come in.
Click to expand...
Again, the nation is distinct from the chosen Rom 11:7

7 What then? Israel[the nation] hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election[chosen] hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#1,123
#1,123
brightfame52 said:
Again, the nation is distinct from the chosen Rom 11:7
7 What then? Israel[the nation] hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election[chosen] hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Click to expand...

No, you are leaving out the rest of the chapter, blinded for a time. You cant just erase the rest of the Bible. It doesn't stop there.
 
crossnote

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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Nehemiah6 said:
That would contradict the Gospel which offers salvation to all freely: And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17).
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No man would be willing apart from the work of the Holy Spirit...

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#1,129
#1,129
Cameron143 said:
What if someone used scripture...

1 Corinthians 12:3...and that no man can say that Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Click to expand...

And this is where I lose the path a little with TULIP believers. I totally believe a person is saved under the unction of the Holy Spirit.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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kaylagrl said:
And this is where I lose the path a little with TULIP believers. I totally believe a person is saved under the unction of the Holy Spirit.
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There is little doubt that God saves us in conjunction with us. I like what one guy said when he was asked how did he know he was saved. Easy, he says, I was there when it happened.
 
P

Papermonkey

Active member
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Dec 2, 2022
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1 Corinthians 12 read a little past verse 3 may help.
We are given faith and salvation by God. The only way our natural mind can be altered to understand things of God we otherwise think of as foolishness is through Holy Spirit.
Which tells me that work is everything to do with our regeneration.

3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.


4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.



I also think if we encounter brash condemnation for our understanding of God's words that first and foremost that examples the testament of Holy Spirit that must work in the worldly natural mind in order to have that affliction abate.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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kaylagrl said:
And this is where I lose the path a little with TULIP believers. I totally believe a person is saved under the unction of the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
Total depravity is embraced and taught by Arminians also. Total depravity does
not mean, either for Calvinists or Arminians, that every person is as evil as possible.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

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Jun 20, 2022
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Cameron143 said:
What if someone used scripture...

1 Corinthians 12:3...and that no man can say that Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Click to expand...
This Chapter begins about the difference between having the Gifts of the Holy Spirit and not. So yes, Once you are Saved and filled with the Holy Spirit you will have this complete understanding. But this has nothing to do with the process of becoming Saved. This is about after you are Saved.

So not sure what you are trying to imply here other than counting the chickens before they hatch from their eggs theory...
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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On this subject I have found the parable in Luke 15 invaluable. It is a parable that has 3 parts, not 3 separate parables, and was written this way for our instruction.
The first parable is of the lost sheep. It shows the part in redemption of the good Shepherd and reveals Jesus' as our propitiation.
The second part is the lost coin. I believe this represents the work of the Holy Spirit. As the house is lit and cleansed, so too are we enlightened and cleansed.
It is only after both these aspects of salvation are concluded that we come to the prodigal. In him we all see some aspect of ourselves and how God received us in our humbled estate.
The problem is, the first 2 steps are imperceptible to us as the work of God, while the third aspect is very experiential. We all can recall the glorious moment of slobbering before our Father and feeling the burden of our sins fall away in His presence. But we aren't aware of the circumcision of heart that leads us to come to ourselves in the first place, that made returning a viable choice in the first place.
I know everyone won't agree with this. I merely share it for your prayerful consideration.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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The_Watchers_2017 said:
This Chapter begins about the difference between having the Gifts of the Holy Spirit and not. So yes, Once you are Saved and filled with the Holy Spirit you will have this complete understanding. But this has nothing to do with the process of becoming Saved. This is about after you are Saved.

So not sure what you are trying to imply here other than counting the chickens before they hatch from their eggs theory...
Click to expand...
Romans 10:9 teaches that those who believe confess with their mouth the Lord Jesus...

Where true salvation takes place, I believe the Holy Spirit is already at work.
 
GRACE_ambassador

GRACE_ambassador

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crossnote said:
No man would be willing apart from the work of the Holy Spirit...
Click to expand...
So, This Is Correct, then? John 16:7-9:

"Nevertheless I tell you The Truth; It is expedient for you that I​
go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto​
you; but if I depart, I Will Send Him unto you. And when​
​
He Is Come, He Will Reprove the world of sin, ​
​
and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they​
believe not on Me"​

Are there not some/Many who are "convicted of their sin," but are not willing?

Their choice, eh?
------------------------
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)!
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#1,137
#1,137
Cameron143 said:
There is little doubt that God saves us in conjunction with us. I like what one guy said when he was asked how did he know he was saved. Easy, he says, I was there when it happened.
Click to expand...

Ah, the old Gospel song says it too "I was there when it happened and I guess I oughta know"!!

So we agree, at least on this point. :)
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

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Jun 24, 2020
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Magenta said:
God brings us to repentance. Glad you agree :)
Click to expand...
The common term is: "Conviction of SIN and of Judgement by the Holy Spirit". ONLY under conviction of sin (which is the start of FAITH - God's word to you - is becoming Born Again possible.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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#1,140
Cameron143 said:
On this subject I have found the parable in Luke 15 invaluable. It is a parable that has 3 parts, not 3 separate parables, and was written this way for our instruction.
The first parable is of the lost sheep. It shows the part in redemption of the good Shepherd and reveals Jesus' as our propitiation.
The second part is the lost coin. I believe this represents the work of the Holy Spirit. As the house is lit and cleansed, so too are we enlightened and cleansed.
It is only after both these aspects of salvation are concluded that we come to the prodigal. In him we all see some aspect of ourselves and how God received us in our humbled estate.
The problem is, the first 2 steps are imperceptible to us as the work of God, while the third aspect is very experiential. We all can recall the glorious moment of slobbering before our Father and feeling the burden of our sins fall away in His presence. But we aren't aware of the circumcision of heart that leads us to come to ourselves in the first place, that made returning a viable choice in the first place.
I know everyone won't agree with this. I merely share it for your prayerful consideration.
Click to expand...
Our God is an awesome God!!! :D
 
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