Do you observe the Sabbath?

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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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If you use Colossians 2:16-17, which you're interpreting incorrectly, to say that the Sabbath is void because it was nailed to a cross and crucified, then you must also include all of the other commandments being voided. Following your theology, murder and adultery are no longer sins and you're free to go do them at will.

Regardless of whatever else is written about no murder or adultery in other passages, you must admit that since the law has been crucified, as you say, then it doesn't matter what those other verses/passages say to the contrary.

If you try to tell me "murder is a sin" I can use Colossians 2:16-17 to prove that it isn't. As you and I both know, murder is still a sin. That means you're interpreting the Bible incorrectly with an anti-Sabbath bias.

Furthermore, the plain text reading of Colossians 2 doesn't void the Sabbath. What has been voided is practically everything else aside from the 10 Commandments.

Finally, Hebrews 4 plainly states the literal Sabbath is still in effect and is an act of disobedience to not keep it.

Hebrews 4
9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, e just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.



Obeying God isn't works-based salvation. Works-based salvation is following your own way, or the way of others, in order to gain God's favor and that isn't what God is impressed with.

Obeying God pleases God and it's good and is required for salvation; faith is only the first step of obedience in an eternal journey. That we don't have to obey God, that we can sin as much as we want, that the can abandon the faith after believing for a short time, that we can fully-convince ourselves and others that obeying God is somehow an error that leads to death, is a demonic deception in the church.

Romans 2
7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

Philippians 2
12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.
I believe that I am interpreting Colossians 2:16-17 correctly and so do ex-SDA's. Also see 2 Corinthians 3:6-9. I already explained that the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated for the body of Christ in the New Testament, so your argument about murder and adultery is moot. I already explained our "sabbatismos" rest we have in Christ in Hebrews 4:9 multiple times. You said faith is only the first step of obedience in our eternal journey, which seems to imply that you believe we are saved by both faith AND multiple acts of obedience/works which "follow." Is that what you teach? Salvation by faith AND WORKS?
 
Mar 4, 2020
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I believe that I am interpreting Colossians 2:16-17 correctly and so do ex-SDA's. Also see 2 Corinthians 3:6-9. I already explained that the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated for the body of Christ in the New Testament, so your argument about murder and adultery is moot.
2 Corinthians 3:6-9 doesn’t void the Sabbath. The spirit of the law and the letter of the law aren’t the same. Before, they were just keeping the commandments out of fear of punishment which could include being stoned to death.

Now, we still keep the commandments, not only in physical action, but in spirit. Jesus explained the spirit of the law in the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5-7. For example, adultery and murder go well beyond the act themselves, but to the very thoughts and intentions of a person.

That being said, the Sabbath is about honoring God, not just with word or deed, but with a heart that draws close to Him in worship; this is what worship in spirit and truth is. The truth is God’s words, the spirit is sincere reverence for God.

Hardly a moot point.

I already explained our "sabbatismos" rest we have in Christ in Hebrews 4:9 multiple times.
I know, but what you’re saying isn’t true. You’re just arguing against the Sabbath. The plain words of Hebrews 4:9 say there is a Sabbath, but you have an entire theology to try to explain it away as if it isn’t true.

You said faith is only the first step of obedience in our eternal journey, which seems to imply that you believe we are saved by both faith AND multiple acts of obedience/works which "follow." Is that what you teach? Salvation by faith AND WORKS?
Yes. Jesus and all of the writers say that there are things we must do in our faith. Doing God’s work, or God’s will, isn’t us trying to save ourselves via our work.

Matthew 7
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
 
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Some questions:

If Jesus were still here on Earth do you think he would still be keeping the Sabbath?

Do you think that Jesus would not being here voids the 10 commandments?

Do you think the Jesus would honor the 10 commandments?

Do you think we have to do what Jesus does?
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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I would say that it was made abundantly clear as to what the circumcision stood for, being a circumcision of the heart. Paul and the Old Testament speak to this.

The thing is, there are no scriptures that explicitly say that the Sabbath day is not relevant to us today in the New Covenant. If there was, we would likely not be having this discussion.

Also, the Sabbath observance is in the 10 Commandments of GOD, written with His very finger and placed Into the Ark of the Covenant.
Negative MessengerofTruth.

The sabbath and physical circumcision were both commandments in the Old Testament, before the written law.

The physical commandment to circumcise is shown below.

Genesis 17:11
And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you.

All Abrahams male descendants must be circumcised.

If the commandment regarding circumcision in Genesis is no longer a commandment.

Then what happens to the commandment to rest on the sabbath?

God does change.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,859
845
113
Some questions:

If Jesus were still here on Earth do you think he would still be keeping the Sabbath?

Do you think that Jesus would not being here voids the 10 commandments?

Do you think the Jesus would honor the 10 commandments?

Do you think we have to do what Jesus does?
I need clarification.

Is Jesus under the law or not, if he was here now?

If Jesus is under the law now, then Jesus must fulfill the entire law.

That includes all offering, feasts, new moons, sabbaths, e.t.c.

The law is the law, no if's or buts about that.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,859
845
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I would say that it was made abundantly clear as to what the circumcision stood for, being a circumcision of the heart. Paul and the Old Testament speak to this.

The thing is, there are no scriptures that explicitly say that the Sabbath day is not relevant to us today in the New Covenant. If there was, we would likely not be having this discussion.

Also, the Sabbath observance is in the 10 Commandments of GOD, written with His very finger and placed Into the Ark of the Covenant.
Was Jesus physically circumcised?

Your in direct violation of the commandment God gave to Abraham.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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Unless someone is involved in the processing of meat, I don't see how someone would know. I assume I don't.
Don't tell me your going to disregard the four commandments, given to the Gentiles in Acts 15.

It means exactly what it says.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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I need clarification.

Is Jesus under the law or not, if he was here now?

If Jesus is under the law now, then Jesus must fulfill the entire law.

That includes all offering, feasts, new moons, sabbaths, e.t.c.

The law is the law, no if's or buts about that.
Jesus was a jewish man, born under the Law of Moses.

and, by the way, call it what it is- The Law of Moses.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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The law of moses is the first 5 books of the bible..
To disregard everything in the first 5 books is like throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Should I get circumcised?
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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Jesus was a jewish man, born under the Law of Moses.

and, by the way, call it what it is- The Law of Moses.
You need to read the question I was asked.

If Jesus were still here on Earth do you think he would still be keeping the Sabbath?
 
Mar 4, 2020
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I need clarification.

Is Jesus under the law or not, if he was here now?

If Jesus is under the law now, then Jesus must fulfill the entire law.

That includes all offering, feasts, new moons, sabbaths, e.t.c.

The law is the law, no if's or buts about that.
The 10 commandments are in the New Covenant so Jesus would have continued observing the Sabbath.

The below verse is about the spirit of the law, doing so with sincere reverence for God. All 10 commandments are referenced in various places in the New Testament books and letters.

Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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The 10 commandments are in the New Covenant so Jesus would have continued observing the Sabbath.

The below verse is about the spirit of the law, doing so with sincere reverence for God.

Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
The text you quoted states 'My laws' are written on the heart. The text does not say the ten commandments are written on the heart.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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Jesus was a jewish man, born under the Law of Moses.

and, by the way, call it what it is- The Law of Moses.
I just call it 'the law', because that is by far the most common name in the text. For example, the phrase 'the law', appears 50 times in just one letter, that is, the letter to the Romans.

Whereas the phrase 'law of Moses', appears just 12 times in the entire New Testament.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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The text you quoted states 'My laws' are written on the heart. The text does not say the ten commandments are written on the heart.
I think it’s evident which laws it’s referring to because of the last verse of the chapter:

13By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

So what laws are obsolete? Weren’t “love your neighbor” and “love God” in the first covenant too? Aren’t the 10 commandments in the new covenant?

What’s been done away with are all of the other laws.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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I think it’s evident which laws it’s referring to because of the last verse of the chapter:

13By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

So what laws are obsolete? Weren’t “love your neighbor” and “love God” in the first covenant too? Aren’t the 10 commandments in the new covenant?

What’s been done away with are all of the other laws.
Jesus said in Matthew, that He has not come to abolish the law but to fulfill the law.

Your saying that the law is abolished.
 

Ted01

Well-known member
May 14, 2022
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I think it’s evident which laws it’s referring to because of the last verse of the chapter:

13By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

So what laws are obsolete? Weren’t “love your neighbor” and “love God” in the first covenant too? Aren’t the 10 commandments in the new covenant?

What’s been done away with are all of the other laws.
Did you know that the stones that the 10 Commandments were written on was called "the tablets of the Covenant"?
The old covenant very much includes the 10 Commandments, see...? And we are under a new covenant. The old is done away with...
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Did you know that the stones that the 10 Commandments were written on was called "the tablets of the Covenant"?
The old covenant very much includes the 10 Commandments, see...? And we are under a new covenant. The old is done away with...
You can’t nail stone tablets to a cross and crucify them…