I don’t see Romans 9:22 as definitive because it says “what if.” To me that means it’s completely hypothetical and not necessarily what God actually does.
Can a Christian lose salvation?
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I don’t see Romans 9:22 as definitive because it says “what if.” To me that means it’s completely hypothetical and not necessarily what God actually does.
I found this passage fitting for both of your responses. The first part is, I haven't lost faith and in my own estimation my faith is quite strong. We should keep building each other up in the faith. I love having faith.
Secondly, this passage says to wait for the Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life. Like I said eternal life is a future thing. It's interesting there are actually many passages about a future eternal life isn't it?
Jude 1
20But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
eternal life is not future, it is ALWAYS now, not past, not future.
past and future is time.
We have eternal life.
Ok. Are you waiting for the Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life or is no waiting required?
Considering the context, it is a rhetorical question that might be rephrased as, "what can we do about it? God does whatever He pleases." No one can say, that's not right, God, you can't put a devil among a group of saints!
A cross reference is offered for Romans 9:22
Proverbs 16:4
The LORD has made everything for His purpose--even the wicked for the day of disaster.
Hebrews 10:38, 39 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition: But of them that believe to the saving of the soul, ....so
Don't stop believing, hold fast the profession of your faith till the end because Jesus is the worthy Lamb of God who came to take away our sins. Christ is the author and finisher of our faith and He said," I will never leave you or forsake you."
Just thought I would do what Runningman exhorted with Jude 1:20 and to encourage others in the faith once delivered to the saints.
And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about a hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb: He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief: but was strong in faith, giving glory to God.
And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was also able to perform. And therefore, it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised Jesus our Lord from the dead; who was delivered for our offenses and raised for our justification. ROMANS4;19-25
GOD BLESS THE BRETHERN WHO ARE LISTENING WITH GRACE AND PEACE IN OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST!
Don't stop believing, hold fast the profession of your faith till the end because Jesus is the worthy Lamb of God who came to take away our sins. Christ is the author and finisher of our faith and He said," I will never leave you or forsake you."
Just thought I would do what Runningman exhorted with Jude 1:20 and to encourage others in the faith once delivered to the saints.
And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about a hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb: He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief: but was strong in faith, giving glory to God.
And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was also able to perform. And therefore, it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised Jesus our Lord from the dead; who was delivered for our offenses and raised for our justification. ROMANS4;19-25
GOD BLESS THE BRETHERN WHO ARE LISTENING WITH GRACE AND PEACE IN OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST!
Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world."
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
So those who [draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul] and those who [believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.]
John 13:10 - Jesus said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” 11 For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, “Not all of you are clean.”
In regards to Judas being chosen, in John 13:18, we read - I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; BUT that the scripture may be fulfilled, 'He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.' By Jesus choosing Judas, that does not mean that Judas was saved and Judas was not included in those "whom the Father gave to Jesus to be kept."
John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled.
John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none." Jesus did not lose Judas. Judas was already lost. Judas was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus and Jesus knew it from the beginning. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11)
Syllogism
1. All given by the Father to Jesus are kept.
2. Judas was not kept.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father
Or this way.
1. None of those given to Jesus by the Father will be lost by Jesus.
2. Judas is lost.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father.
If you’re born twice you die once.
If you’re born once you die twice.
Don’t you know that?
Jesus chose Judas.
Mark 3
13Jesus went up on a mountainside and called to him those he wanted, and they came to him. 14He appointed twelve that they might be with him and that he might send them out to preach 15and to have authority to drive out demons.
16These are the twelve he appointed…
19and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
No one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws them. Looks like Judas still probably lost his salvation.
John 6
44“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.
Jesus, Paul, and Peter all at one time or another said eternal life is a future thing. Yet there are some verses that look like eternal life is possibly obtained now, but like you said we still die. How is that reconcilable?
Been thinking about it and I think the key to understanding this, no pun intended, is just to look at what happened to Jesus. Jesus is the example of what those who inherit eternal life will experience. The difference is Jesus got his resurrection quickly, but our resurrection comes later apparently.
Revelation 1
18I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
The simple fact that we die is proof we haven't been granted eternal life yet. We've been given the Holy Spirit as a guarantee (2 Corinthians 1:22), but it's only a guarantee on God's end. He has guaranteed to grant us redemption if we remain faithful to the end. But we struggle with sin and the flesh and if we give up and reject our Savior it's like taking God's guarantee and ripping it up. We're telling God we no longer want His guarantee.
So as long as we're in the body there will always be the possibility for sin to overcome us. That's why we have to have humility and be ever vigilant.
So as long as we're in the body there will always be the possibility for sin to overcome us. That's why we have to have humility and be ever vigilant.
Everyone born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world: our
faith. Who then overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. 1 John 5:4-5
faith. Who then overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. 1 John 5:4-5
Yes, and verse 11-13 continue...
"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."
I already have been given eternal life.
Why this life is not based upon any analogies or behavior or emotions works of self righteousness. That's true of you and anyone else too, IF the Object of their faith is the Lord. It's based upon the Son. Therefore it's recorded here that I may know, that goes for all of us who trusted Jesus 100% . When someone says they can lose it, it shows that they have partly trusted self rather than the Lord. That's why the can never be sure. They already violated the Scriptures, their consciences, the laws of God. I thank God that it's a matter of record and we don't have to doubt and wonder if we were faithful until death. Those are great promises He's given believers in His Son, isn't it?