Conclusion From Beware the Pseudo-Rapture Doctrine 4
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There is nothing allegorical about it and it is not anyone's personal interpretation. Tis' what the Bible clearly states. You cannot wish it away. John experienced the future pre-trib Rapture, as well as many other things. Please don't tell us that you believe the Second Coming happened 1900 years ago also.
Yes it does. It signals the end of the Church age. It has nothing to do with the 7th trumpet Judgement (which happens to occur in the middle of the Tribulation).
Darth Vader?!
Yes it does. It signals the end of the Church age. It has nothing to do with the 7th trumpet Judgement (which happens to occur in the middle of the Tribulation).
Darth Vader?!
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Agreed. Paul makes very clear the SEQUENCE (Rapture before the start of "the DOTL" time-period of Judgments unfolding upon the earth), and he REPEATS this sequence THREE TIMES in 2Th2 (and which sequence AGREES with the SAME sequence shown in his first letter to them--chpt4 & 5... Not to mention all other related passages, such as Rev4&5 with the "24 elders" saying "hast redeemed US... out-of EVERY..." and corresponding w/ what chpt 1:5-6 had said)
Hey cv5, in view of your list of passages here ^ , I thought you might enjoy this quote by J.G. Bellett:
"Ezekiel had been caught away to Jerusalem and other places, as a prophet to Israel, that he might in the visions of God, understand and declare the Divine counsels. And so John was taken away to various scenes, as prophet to the Church, that he might testify in like manner of the Divine purposes. But these were only raptures in the Spirit. Philip had been actually, and not merely in Spirit, caught away to Azotus from the desert of Gaza, that as an evangelist, he might pursue his ministry among the habitation of men. So Paul is actually caught up into paradise, but this was not as a prophet, nor as an evangelist, nor as an Apostle, but “as a man in Christ,” that all “in Christ” might know their portion in that blessing and honor which awaits them after this life, and which was so great that our Apostle, returning to the flesh and to the earth, was in danger of being exalted by it above measure."
-- John G Bellett, Bible Truth Publishers
(bold mine)
["IN Christ" is a NT designation (re: all those having come to faith "in this present age [singular]"... Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence]; note: Eph1:10 isn't referring to this present age where it states, "that in the dispensation of the fulness of times...," as many suppose it to mean)]
Hey cv5, in view of your list of passages here ^ , I thought you might enjoy this quote by J.G. Bellett:
"Ezekiel had been caught away to Jerusalem and other places, as a prophet to Israel, that he might in the visions of God, understand and declare the Divine counsels. And so John was taken away to various scenes, as prophet to the Church, that he might testify in like manner of the Divine purposes. But these were only raptures in the Spirit. Philip had been actually, and not merely in Spirit, caught away to Azotus from the desert of Gaza, that as an evangelist, he might pursue his ministry among the habitation of men. So Paul is actually caught up into paradise, but this was not as a prophet, nor as an evangelist, nor as an Apostle, but “as a man in Christ,” that all “in Christ” might know their portion in that blessing and honor which awaits them after this life, and which was so great that our Apostle, returning to the flesh and to the earth, was in danger of being exalted by it above measure."
-- John G Bellett, Bible Truth Publishers
(bold mine)
["IN Christ" is a NT designation (re: all those having come to faith "in this present age [singular]"... Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence]; note: Eph1:10 isn't referring to this present age where it states, "that in the dispensation of the fulness of times...," as many suppose it to mean)]
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You take a liberty to change John's vision to an experience of bodily "rapture" when he clearly stated he was shown a vision
in the spirit.
John alone was shown a vision. He witnessed the throne room of heaven.
He didn't experience a bodily resurection or rapture. He wasn't given a prophecy concerning a rapture.
The focus was on Jesus.
Rev 4
And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”
2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it.
Here's how your King James Version puts it.
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
in the spirit.
John alone was shown a vision. He witnessed the throne room of heaven.
He didn't experience a bodily resurection or rapture. He wasn't given a prophecy concerning a rapture.
The focus was on Jesus.
Rev 4
And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”
2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it.
Here's how your King James Version puts it.
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
Let's not neglect to notice a few things in the text:
--John was being "SHOWN" things which must take place "after these things" (that is, after "the things WHICH ARE" in chpts 2-3) and which are said (per 1:1) are "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (these are NOT things which would unfold over the course of some near 2000 years (like saints who die being "at home with the Lord" as they do); but what will immediately precede and LEAD UP TO His Second Coming to the earth, Rev19; This "future" aspect of the Book of Rev IS the "7 year period" [2520 days], aka Daniel's 70th "Week");
--a "searching judgment" has already taken place as indicated by the word "WAS FOUND" (in 5:4), which same word is used re: Paul when he's brought before their human / earthly "bema" in the latter chpts of Acts; This is why we see the "24 elders" having been awarded "stephanon/crowns" which Paul said he (and others) would be awarded "IN THAT DAY" (not the day of his and their deaths!), referring to the "BEMA" rewards time;
--when Jesus is shown "STANDING" and opens the FIRST SEAL, this is the equivalent of the START of "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that Jesus spoke of in His Olivet Discourse (the SEALS = "the beginning of birth PANGS"); the FIRST ONE (per Jesus' words) found in Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "G5100 tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' [ 'a certain one' bringing deception]" aka the "whose COMING" of the "man of sin" in 2Th2:9a,8a... at the START of those "7 yrs" (not at the MID-POINT, when he does the "who SITTETH" thing, 2Th2:4--that's LATER); In 1Th5:2-3 Paul acknowledges the Thessalonians "KNOW PERFECTLY" the manner of "the DOTL's" ARRIVAL... and he goes on to say that it is "EXACTLY LIKE [hosper[/I]]" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR--same word Jesus used!!!!]" that COMES UPON a woman in labor (it's not "ONE and DONE" when it comes to "birth PANGS"... many more follow on from this INITIAL one... this is just its ARRIVAL--the ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" earthly-located TIME PERIOD of Judgments unfolding upon the earth--which takes place WELL-BEFORE Jesus' Second Coming to the earth in Rev19)]
--John was being "SHOWN" things which must take place "after these things" (that is, after "the things WHICH ARE" in chpts 2-3) and which are said (per 1:1) are "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (these are NOT things which would unfold over the course of some near 2000 years (like saints who die being "at home with the Lord" as they do); but what will immediately precede and LEAD UP TO His Second Coming to the earth, Rev19; This "future" aspect of the Book of Rev IS the "7 year period" [2520 days], aka Daniel's 70th "Week");
--a "searching judgment" has already taken place as indicated by the word "WAS FOUND" (in 5:4), which same word is used re: Paul when he's brought before their human / earthly "bema" in the latter chpts of Acts; This is why we see the "24 elders" having been awarded "stephanon/crowns" which Paul said he (and others) would be awarded "IN THAT DAY" (not the day of his and their deaths!), referring to the "BEMA" rewards time;
--when Jesus is shown "STANDING" and opens the FIRST SEAL, this is the equivalent of the START of "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that Jesus spoke of in His Olivet Discourse (the SEALS = "the beginning of birth PANGS"); the FIRST ONE (per Jesus' words) found in Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "G5100 tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' [ 'a certain one' bringing deception]" aka the "whose COMING" of the "man of sin" in 2Th2:9a,8a... at the START of those "7 yrs" (not at the MID-POINT, when he does the "who SITTETH" thing, 2Th2:4--that's LATER); In 1Th5:2-3 Paul acknowledges the Thessalonians "KNOW PERFECTLY" the manner of "the DOTL's" ARRIVAL... and he goes on to say that it is "EXACTLY LIKE [hosper[/I]]" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR--same word Jesus used!!!!]" that COMES UPON a woman in labor (it's not "ONE and DONE" when it comes to "birth PANGS"... many more follow on from this INITIAL one... this is just its ARRIVAL--the ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" earthly-located TIME PERIOD of Judgments unfolding upon the earth--which takes place WELL-BEFORE Jesus' Second Coming to the earth in Rev19)]
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There is absolutely no evidence for the rapture of mortal bodies, but there is evidence for it around the time described in Revelation 20 because I Thessalonians tells us that the dead in Christ shall rise first and we which are alive and remain will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air, and Revelation 20 describes the first resurrection.
