Does God desire the salvation of all mankind?

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kaylagrl

Guest
#681
#681
Cameron143 said:
You have a nice heart. I remembered when I posted a similar message to little avail. Don't become jaded by it as many have.
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I had a friend here who was a Calvinist. We disagreed, but he was so kind when he gave his POV. We were never harsh with each other. I have friends in my every day life who are Calvinists or at least hold to part of TULIP but they are wonderful friends that we fellowship with. There is no need for anger and strife.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#683
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#683
kaylagrl said:
I had a friend here who was a Calvinist. We disagreed, but he was so kind when he gave his POV. We were never harsh with each other. I have friends in my every day life who are Calvinists or at least hold to part of TULIP but they are wonderful friends that we fellowship with. There is no need for anger and strife.
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Well said.
 
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ForestGreenCook

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#685
MessengerofTruth said:
I think those things are written so that we will fear the LORD and realize that our faith is a precious thing not to be taken for granted, but not to a cause of division.
If each of us walks out our own salvation with fear and trembling, we should by our fruit declare whether our doctrine is of GOD, for there will be purity, peace and an approachableness to converse and be understood peaceably.
I do believe that we are chosen but, as I was told "it's a family secret". Let us walk in peace and let our works declare Truth. Then, if we get the chance to share, share. But let us love one another and be tenderhearted, it is not sin to not believe calvanism.
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Are you saying that it is wrong to defend the gospel?

Phil 1:17 - Paul says he is set for the defense of the gospel.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#686
#686
brightfame52 said:
Yes, because the bible teaches it to me
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No, the Bible does not teach there is an elect people and a people that were created for destruction. The Bible teaches that the Gospel is to all who will believe. Christ died for all. That is what the Word teaches you.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#689
Jul 18, 2017
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#689
Snacks said:
Show the verse that says verbatim God creates some people for destruction.
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|Here's the verse which says THE EXACT OPPOSITE:
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? (Ezekiel 33:11)

How dare anyone claim that God creates some for destruction and damnation? If they are damned it is because they have hardened their hearts in spite of God saying turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die?
 
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ForestGreenCook

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#690
Jul 8, 2018
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#690
kaylagrl said:
On that point we totally agree! Let me ask you a question. I know there are different degrees of TULIP that people believe in. My cousins family just had a baby. They were told the child would not live. She is now going on four months old PTL. But if that baby dies tomorrow, does she go to heaven or hell? What would your response be and why so that I may gain understanding of where you are on the scale.
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The scriptures, to my understanding, teach that we are all born into this world, by natural birth, dead in our sins because of Adam's sin. until we are quickened to a new spiritual life. Being born again comes hardly noticeable, being compared to a gentle breeze, not knowing where it came from, nor where it goes.

In John the baptist's case, he was born again while still in his mother's womb.

The wicked's eye's stands out with fatness, they have more than the heart could wish (Psalms 73) these are the ungodly, who prosper in the world, they increase in riches. (they, evidently live to be old).

I believe that all very young children who die, are born again in the same manner that adults are, and will go to heaven.

In what direction do you tip my scale?
 
MessengerofTruth

MessengerofTruth

Well-known member
#691
Dec 21, 2022
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#691
ForestGreenCook said:
Are you saying that it is wrong to defend the gospel?

Phil 1:17 - Paul says he is set for the defense of the gospel.
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I am saying that I do not see Paul or Jesus contending for this matter. If this point is part of the gospel, then I truly believe that it would have been stated clearly by both of them, so that there would be no disputing over it now.

But, I see the opposite; they call us to walk as children of the Father with love and tenderness to those that oppose themselves.
If you have a point that the Father says is important for us to understand, then it will be done in peace, and if no one wants to hear let them be ignorant, so that you are known as a child of GOD by the Love you show one to another.
A servant of the LORD must not strive , but be Gentle to All apt to Teach.
I know it can be difficult when you see something so clearly and others can not.

(I am not suggesting that I believe that any on this thread is ignorant.) I see the point on both sides and can see the polarization which is not what we have been called to. Unity and only separation on the grounds of sin and heresy.
 
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Runningman

Banned
#692
Mar 4, 2020
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brightfame52 said:
What the True God desires He performs it Job 23:13-14

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

And some of mankind were made appointed to wrath, as others were not 1 Thess 5:9

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Now it would contradict Gods own appointment and purpose to desire or will that those He has appointed to wrath to be saved.
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It’s true. God does not want the wicked to die nor does He take any pleasure in it. He wants all people to be saved.

Ezekiel 18
23Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

Ezekiel 33
11Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’

1 Timothy 2
3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#693
#693
ForestGreenCook said:
The scriptures, to my understanding, teach that we are all born into this world, by natural birth, dead in our sins because of Adam's sin. until we are quickened to a new spiritual life. Being born again comes hardly noticeable, being compared to a gentle breeze, not knowing where it came from, nor where it goes.

In John the baptist's case, he was born again while still in his mother's womb.

The wicked's eye's stands out with fatness, they have more than the heart could wish (Psalms 73) these are the ungodly, who prosper in the world, they increase in riches. (they, evidently live to be old).

I believe that all very young children who die, are born again in the same manner that adults are, and will go to heaven.

In what direction do you tip my scale?
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I guess I just need to outright ask what do you believe of TULIP, or do you believe any of it? Do you believe in total depravity? Would you consider yourself a Calvinist? I don't want to assume or measure the scale in any direction. I just need to be clear on what we both believe. I've done a lot of exploration on many subjects being at CC. This seems to be a y in the road that some believe on way, some another. We may have some things in common, I'm just trying to understand where that point is.
 
MessengerofTruth

MessengerofTruth

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#694
Snacks said:
Show the verse that says verbatim God creates some people for destruction.
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Not intending to add to the contention here but hoping to bring clarity as to where others may be coming from. Rom 9:10-23.
I am not trying to side with any extreme view, just trying to be fair.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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In Romans 9, God uses the example of the Potter and the clay and says that it is in His sovereign prerogative to make vessels both to honor and dishonor. In the very next chapter He says all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Until the Bible is allowed to speak for God this debate will continue.
 
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ForestGreenCook

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#696
Jul 8, 2018
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#696
kaylagrl said:
Because the Bible doesn't teach total depravity, nor that there was a people made for destruction that cannot accept the Lord. It is no where in the Word.
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Except for the intervention of God, we all were depraved. (Psalms 53: 2-3)

Once we have been born again, we have a spiritual nature, but Paul says that we still struggle with our flesh nature (Rom 8: 25).
 
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brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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#697
Runningman said:
It’s true. God does not want the wicked to die nor does He take any pleasure in it. He wants all people to be saved.

Ezekiel 18
23Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

Ezekiel 33
11Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’

1 Timothy 2
3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
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Yes, it is true, God created the vessels of wrath for destruction, and makes them fitted.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#698
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#698
Cameron143 said:
In Romans 9, God uses the example of the Potter and the clay and says that it is in His sovereign prerogative to make vessels both to honor and dishonor. In the very next chapter He says all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Until the Bible is allowed to speak for God this debate will continue.
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So, what are your thoughts on the natural man (1 Cor 2:14), can he call upon the Lord?
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
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Nov 21, 2020
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#699
Cameron143 said:
In Romans 9, God uses the example of the Potter and the clay and says that it is in His sovereign prerogative to make vessels both to honor and dishonor. In the very next chapter He says all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Until the Bible is allowed to speak for God this debate will continue.
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One must be saved in order to call upon the name of the Lord. If one isnt saved by regeneration first, he or she is spiritually dead.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#700
#700
ForestGreenCook said:
Except for the intervention of God, we all were depraved. (Psalms 53: 2-3)

Once we have been born again, we have a spiritual nature, but Paul says that we still struggle with our flesh nature (Rom 8: 25).
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So that would be a yes on the total depravity. lol I'm on my way out the door but would like to add some ideas into the discussion perhaps later today.
 
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