the 2 bears & their 42 victims

[montana123]

It appears as if the children were telling Elisha to get out of here and mocking him so God allowed 2 bears to go against them because they disrespected the man of God.

2Ki 2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
2Ki 2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

Lev 26:22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.

Israel was rebellious at this time and Elijah and Elisha worked to bring them back to the truth.

This was one of the punishments that God would cause to come upon Israel if she continued in her disobedience.

The children would of had to learn by their parents to be against the man of God which their parents would of had to be rebellious against the truth.

They were either saying go thou up because they heard Elijah went up and they wanted Elisha to leave as well, or was saying get out of here for we want nothing to do with you.

No person witnessed that Elijah went up but Elisha for if they had witnessed it then it would seem like that would of caused them to start going back on track to be right with God.

But they could of heard about it but did not believe it so they were mocking him concerning that which would be a better reason for punishment than if they were only mocking him because he was bald.

Or they could of been saying get out of here for we want nothing to do with you.

Either way they mocked him and wanted nothing to do with him and did not respect that he was a man of God so they received the punishment as recorded in Leviticus that wild beasts would go against their children.

For if the bears attacking the children had nothing to do with mocking Elisha it probably would of not been recorded.

It seems like the 2 bears was a punishment upon the children for the bears came out of the wood so the children were not in the woods disturbing them.

 

[posthuman]

It seems like the 2 bears was a punishment upon the children for the bears came out of the wood so the children were not in the woods disturbing them.

they're not "children" they are army-age young men.
Elisha is between 25-30yrs old at this time, and the context show they are as well:
in 2 Kings 1 we have 3 groups of 50 men who are all warriors. in 2 kings 2 we have 50 men foolishly, heretically searching for the body of Elijah - they are all warrior-age adults.
in 2 Kings 2 we have ((X)) men who are similarly grouped together in a hostile gang provoking Elisha.
are they 7yr olds
what is the context
does it make sense that 50 6yr-old-children are grouped together in a gang outside the city without adult supervision trying to provoke the man of God?
what are their intentions? they seek to kill him. they want him to turn and give them a reason to attack. they want him to go "up" to the high place of Bethel where literal children are being sacrificed to Molek, where the false priests and their guards will kill Elisha.
they mock him, telling him to "go up" as Elijah did - i.e. go away, or prove that you really are a man of God.

what happened in 2 Kings 1?
50 men at a time came to taunt and mock Elijah, commanding him to "come down" at the order of a wicked king.
Elijah said what? "if i am a man of God"
not related?

absolutely related

there are 50 young men, all of warrior-age, and they are doing exactly the same thing to Elisha as the 50 men & their captains did in 2 Kings 1
God spares 8 of them. why?
who else is spared in 2 Kings 1-2? why?
why do the ((50)) sons of the prophets who heretically search for the carcass of the ascended man of God, in unbelief, for 3 days, then ask Elisha to heal their cursed city of Jericho?
why does Elisha do it?
who is Elisha a picture of typologically?
who are the unbelieving 50 men typologically?
why do they go from trying to find the body of the ascended Man of God ((who is this typologically?)) to asking the man of God Elisha to remove the curse? ((see Joshua 6:26 -- Jericho is cursed by the LORD))
what is the removal of the curse typologically?

Elijah in 2 Kings 1 is a picture of Christ. that is the entire reason that 2 Kings 1 is written; the portrait of Christ is the primary and only accurate interpretation of the text. so where in the NT is Christ commanded by wicked men in the service of a wicked king to "come down" ??
and in 2 Kings 2, Elisha represents Christ -- it is the entire reason that 2 Kings 2 is written and the portrait of Chris tis the primary & only accurate interpretation of the text. without seeing Christ in these chapters, we do not understand them. a Christless interpretation of this is a worthless interpretation, no matter how nice any moral lesson we might impose on the text seems.
without Christ there is nothing.

so where in the NT is Christ told to "come down" and/or to "go up" ?

there are mockers all over the Bible and all over history.
God does not personally kill all of them immediately.
so why here?
what is this a picture of?
who is Elisha typologically?
who are the 50 young men typologically?
who are the two female bears typologically?
why does this happen specifically at Bethel?

 

[posthuman]

think about these passages as though they are testimony of Jesus Christ -- because that is what they are.

not as though they are some simple, stupid moral lesson like "kids better act nice or else God will kill them"
that is not the takeaway here. that's ridiculous.

don't be an idiot.
be wise.
seek Christ: the Bible is extraordinarily complex and rich in wisdom, unlike any other text on earth.
read it that way

 

[posthuman]

The previous chapter God shows how He protects His prophet in more than remarkable ways.

nice thought, but..
this is not in the Bible in order to show that God "protects His prophets"

this is in the Bible in order to testify of Christ. John 5:39

God did not author scripture in order to make prophets feel OK about themselves.
He wrote scripture in order to testify of Christ. Revelation 12:17

find Christ in the narrative.

if you cannot find Christ, it is worthless. nothing matters but Him. everything else is vanity.
believe what He says: this is about Him. growing in knowledge of Him is the whole reason this is written.
walking away with 'God kills kids if they are bad' or 'bears will maul anyone who opposes me' is an idiotic, foolish interpretation.
yet that is 99.9995% of sermons on this.

shame! Christless! inane!

"where is the LORD God of Elijah??"​

 

[Mem]

it says that "as Elisha was going up to Bethel from there, Jericho that is..(note: one would've "gone down" to Egypt or Babylon regardless of those cities being either north or south), the insignificant lads were scoffing his "going up" along with his mourning (making bald your head) as Ellijah had recently "departed" from him

 

[posthuman]

The female is more deadly than the male (Rudyard Kipling). As to the rest of the story, there is nothing mystical. Divine judgment in those days was swift.

who??

who is Rudyard Kipling? what does he know about interpreting ("cutting straight" = ὀρθοτομοῦντα, 2 Timothy 2:15)) scripture?

do you deny this is testimony of Christ?

does God immediately strike dead everyone who ever mocks any man of God?
no?
well then, your interpretation is sorely lacking.

study!
show yourself approved!

what is the purpose of scripture? WHO is the purpose of scripture?
find Him in this!

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

nice thought, but..
this is not in the Bible in order to show that God "protects His prophets"

this is in the Bible in order to testify of Christ. John 5:39

God did not author scripture in order to make prophets feel OK about themselves.
He wrote scripture in order to testify of Christ. Revelation 12:17

find Christ in the narrative.

if you cannot find Christ, it is worthless. nothing matters but Him. everything else is vanity.
believe what He says: this is about Him. growing in knowledge of Him is the whole reason this is written.
walking away with 'God kills kids if they are bad' or 'bears will maul anyone who opposes me' is an idiotic, foolish interpretation.
yet that is 99.9995% of sermons on this.

shame! Christless! inane!

"where is the LORD God of Elijah??"​

It looks to me like God sent judgement upon the wicked families that rejected Him for Baal. The man who just went up was Elisha's preacher Elijah. They seemed to make reference to that rather than the high places of all the false prophets Elijah butchered according to God's command. I don't think the baldy insult had anything to do with it other than to show us that they not only wanted to chase him out of town, but also personally insult him. I heard that a lot more from primary and secondary school kids than the military guys I have been around. Maybe things have changed. Like I said, it's just my opinion and not to be taken as Scriptures only tell us so much. I might see your point if you are trying to make a case for Elisha being a type of Christ, but I believe the translation for what it says.
He brought judgement many times and protected His servants many times. He even spared Lot's family as a favor to His beloved Abraham. Jesus wasn't in the city, but outside. Then He toasted the cities of the plain once the family of Lot were rescued.

"And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD:28 And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham," and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.
Genesis 19

 

[Mem]

it says that "as Elisha was going up to Bethel from there, Jericho that is..(note: one would've "gone down" to Egypt or Babylon regardless of those cities being either north or south), the insignificant lads were scoffing his "going up" along with his mourning (making bald your head) as Ellijah had recently "departed" from him

They came out from the city to mock him while he was on the way to Bethel, and when he turned and saw them, Elijah cursed them and two bears came out of the woods and mauled 42 of their number. Then he went from there to Mount Carmel, and from there returned to Samaria... did he make it to Bethel?

 

[posthuman]

it says that "as Elisha was going up to Bethel from there, Jericho that is..(note: one would've "gone down" to Egypt or Babylon regardless of those cities being either north or south), the insignificant lads were scoffing his "going up" along with his mourning (making bald your head) as Ellijah had recently "departed" from him

hmm

does Elisha seem like he is in mourning?
why would he mourn?
did he not personally witness Elijah enter the presence of God?
is that something to be sad about?

As for the man whose hair has fallen from his head, he is bald, but he is clean. He whose hair has fallen from his forehead, he is bald on the forehead, but he is clean. And if there is on the bald head or bald forehead a reddish-white sore, it is leprosy breaking out on his bald head or his bald forehead. Then the priest shall examine it; and indeed if the swelling of the sore is reddish-white on his bald head or on his bald forehead, as the appearance of leprosy on the skin of the body, he is a leprous man. He is unclean. The priest shall surely pronounce him unclean; his sore is on his head.​

(Leviticus 13:40-44)​

​

do you think this might be relevant to "bald head" being used as a slanderous attack by mockers looking for a reason to kill someone?

but Elisha does mourn -- he is ashamed that the 50 men who want to look for a discarded carcass of the ascended man of God ((fool's errand! there is no corpse! Christ is resurrected!)) keep on in their unbelief, wanting to go find a corpse.
this is like Christ at the death of Lazarus -- He does not weep for Lazarus, but for those who, in their unbelief, suppose that Lazarus is no more. and this is Christ weeping over Jerusalem, saying, how He wished to gather them in His wings, but they would not.

 

[Mem]

does Elisha seem like he is in mourning?

In the preceding verses, 2Kings2:12- Elisha watches Elijah ascend and saw him no more, he "rends his garment in two." This is traditionally viewed as an act of mourning.

 

[posthuman]

it says that "as Elisha was going up to Bethel from there, Jericho that is..(note: one would've "gone down" to Egypt or Babylon regardless of those cities being either north or south)

Bethel is 'uphill' -- higher in elevation. that is where the 'high place' of idolatry was built, with the golden calf, the altar to Molek, the god who demanded child sacrifice. where the false Pascha was set up by Jeroboam ((1 Kings 12))

it means, 'house of God' -- as Jacob named it ((Genesis 28)) -- but Hosea calls it Beth-aven, house of vanity ((Hosea 4:15, 10:5, 10:8))

Bethel, where this occurs, is the house of the substitute paschal lamb: the false lam, the idol shepherd. it is representative of antichrist -- and the young men who accost Elisha are those or the sons of those who are leading Israel astray, to worship other gods. they are sons of Belial.

Let a man meet a bear robbed of her cubs, ​

rather than a fool in his folly.​

(Proverbs 17:12)​

they are judgement, just as the fire that Elijah calls down on the first 2 captains and their 50's in 2 KIngs 1 is judgement: judgement on those who deny the Man of God, of His resurrection, of His salvation, of His legitimacy.

if Elisha is typologically Christ, then the 50 at Bethel are typologically false prophets of the antichrist, leading Israel astray - i.e. robbing her of her cubs - which is tantamount to seeking to destroy Israel, to take away their salvation, to prevent it; to murder Israel God's inheritance.
He spares 8 of them.
He preserves Israel - just as He will when all nations gather around her to destroy her - and He will also in mercy spare those who turn and believe, just as He lifted the curse of Jericho when those unbelieving 50 that went to find a corpse of the ascended Man of God ((there is no corpse!! He is Risen!!)), when they realized that Elisha (typologically Christ)), had the truth and had power to lift the curse.

He crossed the Jor-Dan, the river of sin & death flowing from the city of Adam to the Dead Sea. He did this saying, "where is the LORD?" -- not because he did not know, but because those who heard it needed to face the question

 

[posthuman]

In the preceding verses, 2Kings2:12- Elisha watches Elijah ascend and saw him no more, he "rends his garment in two." This is traditionally viewed as an act of mourning.

he receives a new garment - that same mantle Elijah wore =]

so is he mourning Elijah or something else?

he sees him, and he has to see him in order to receive the new garment
we must similarly see Christ, to receive our new garment: when we do, do we mourn Christ?
or do we mourn those who refuse to believe? do we mourn our own lives before we came to faith?
we cast aside our own works as filthy rags, putting on Christ

 

[Mem]

he receives a new garment - that same mantle Elijah wore =]

so is he mourning Elijah or something else?

he sees him, and he has to see him in order to receive the new garment
we must similarly see Christ, to receive our new garment: when we do, do we mourn Christ?
or do we mourn those who refuse to believe? do we mourn our own lives before we came to faith?
we cast aside our own works as filthy rags, putting on Christ

I'm seeing Elisha mourning the separation as the preceding verses show him refusing to leave Elijah each time Elijah told him to leave him, three times. I think, similarly, we mourn the separation that our sin has caused between us and God.

 

[posthuman]

I'm seeing Elisha mourning the separation as the preceding verses show him refusing to leave Elijah each time Elijah told him to leave him, three times. I think, similarly, we mourn the separation that our sin has caused between us and God.

this isn't without merit, but the basic message as i understand it is testifying of Christ & His work -- so that the most fundamental aspect of this is the typology which speaks of Christ. in that sense, i see him casting aside his old garment to put on the garment of 'the Man of God' -- as we must also "witness" Christ, and when we do, having faith, He gives us His own 'robe' of righteousness. Elijah & Elisha both know what is going to happen - he tells the sons of the prophets "yes i know, shut up" when they ask if he knows Elijah will ascend? i.e. that Christ will ascend? because this parallels Christ on earth with His disciples - who then go on to be 'robed' with the Spirit. when they followed Him, they left behind their former lives - as Elisha leaves behind his old garment to put on this mantle.

next thing he does is cross the Jor-Dan, making a way across death, prefiguring Christ. then he is met by people who do not believe in the bodily ascension ((vis a vis resurrection)) of Elijah ((of Christ)). he witnesses to them, but they do not believe. they persist, and he witnesses again, but they don't believe. finally he is ashamed and lets them go find out for themselves on their own 3-day journey.
in this, he mourns - the shame - but it is shame for their unbelief, not shame for Elijah's departure.

this goes here:

You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.
(John 14:28)​

​

rending garments is typically a sign of mourning -- but why is it this?
what is it about tearing our clothes that means we are in mourning?
does it mean, we want new clothes? we long to be clothed in a new garment? we hate our own clothes?

in Elisha's case, he does this when he sees firsthand the glory of God, and receives a new garment - the garment of the ascended Man of God. this is amazingly parallel to the gospel; it is a picture of it, and just one key part of this whole amazing narrative. the whole of these 2 chapters is an extraordinary testimony, and i think we have to see it this way to comprehend what it means.

 

[Mem]

this isn't without merit, but the basic message as i understand it is testifying of Christ & His work -- so that the most fundamental aspect of this is the typology which speaks of Christ. in that sense, i see him casting aside his old garment to put on the garment of 'the Man of God' -- as we must also "witness" Christ, and when we do, having faith, He gives us His own 'robe' of righteousness. Elijah & Elisha both know what is going to happen - he tells the sons of the prophets "yes i know, shut up" when they ask if he knows Elijah will ascend? i.e. that Christ will ascend? because this parallels Christ on earth with His disciples - who then go on to be 'robed' with the Spirit. when they followed Him, they left behind their former lives - as Elisha leaves behind his old garment to put on this mantle.

next thing he does is cross the Jor-Dan, making a way across death, prefiguring Christ. then he is met by people who do not believe in the bodily ascension ((vis a vis resurrection)) of Elijah ((of Christ)). he witnesses to them, but they do not believe. they persist, and he witnesses again, but they don't believe. finally he is ashamed and lets them go find out for themselves on their own 3-day journey.
in this, he mourns - the shame - but it is shame for their unbelief, not shame for Elijah's departure.

this goes here:

You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.​

(John 14:28)​

​

rending garments is typically a sign of mourning -- but why is it this?
what is it about tearing our clothes that means we are in mourning?
does it mean, we want new clothes? we long to be clothed in a new garment? we hate our own clothes?

in Elisha's case, he does this when he sees firsthand the glory of God, and receives a new garment - the garment of the ascended Man of God. this is amazingly parallel to the gospel; it is a picture of it, and just one key part of this whole amazing narrative. the whole of these 2 chapters is an extraordinary testimony, and i think we have to see it this way to comprehend what it means.

A healthy perspective and, truly, God is all in all.

2Kings 13:14 provides an example of Joash weeping for Elisha exclaiming the same manner, "My father, my father, the chariots and horsemen of Israel"

 

[montana123]

they're not "children" they are army-age young men.
Elisha is between 25-30yrs old at this time, and the context show they are as well:
in 2 Kings 1 we have 3 groups of 50 men who are all warriors. in 2 kings 2 we have 50 men foolishly, heretically searching for the body of Elijah - they are all warrior-age adults.
in 2 Kings 2 we have ((X)) men who are similarly grouped together in a hostile gang provoking Elisha.
are they 7yr olds
what is the context
does it make sense that 50 6yr-old-children are grouped together in a gang outside the city without adult supervision trying to provoke the man of God?
what are their intentions? they seek to kill him. they want him to turn and give them a reason to attack. they want him to go "up" to the high place of Bethel where literal children are being sacrificed to Molek, where the false priests and their guards will kill Elisha.
they mock him, telling him to "go up" as Elijah did - i.e. go away, or prove that you really are a man of God.

what happened in 2 Kings 1?
50 men at a time came to taunt and mock Elijah, commanding him to "come down" at the order of a wicked king.
Elijah said what? "if i am a man of God"
not related?

absolutely related

there are 50 young men, all of warrior-age, and they are doing exactly the same thing to Elisha as the 50 men & their captains did in 2 Kings 1
God spares 8 of them. why?
who else is spared in 2 Kings 1-2? why?
why do the ((50)) sons of the prophets who heretically search for the carcass of the ascended man of God, in unbelief, for 3 days, then ask Elisha to heal their cursed city of Jericho?
why does Elisha do it?
who is Elisha a picture of typologically?
who are the unbelieving 50 men typologically?
why do they go from trying to find the body of the ascended Man of God ((who is this typologically?)) to asking the man of God Elisha to remove the curse? ((see Joshua 6:26 -- Jericho is cursed by the LORD))
what is the removal of the curse typologically?

Elijah in 2 Kings 1 is a picture of Christ. that is the entire reason that 2 Kings 1 is written; the portrait of Christ is the primary and only accurate interpretation of the text. so where in the NT is Christ commanded by wicked men in the service of a wicked king to "come down" ??
and in 2 Kings 2, Elisha represents Christ -- it is the entire reason that 2 Kings 2 is written and the portrait of Chris tis the primary & only accurate interpretation of the text. without seeing Christ in these chapters, we do not understand them. a Christless interpretation of this is a worthless interpretation, no matter how nice any moral lesson we might impose on the text seems.
without Christ there is nothing.

so where in the NT is Christ told to "come down" and/or to "go up" ?

there are mockers all over the Bible and all over history.
God does not personally kill all of them immediately.
so why here?
what is this a picture of?
who is Elisha typologically?
who are the 50 young men typologically?
who are the two female bears typologically?
why does this happen specifically at Bethel?

Alright, the children are army age men, thanks for the information.

I was going by the scripture that they were little children.

In the Strong's Concordance it states that it can be from the age of infancy to adolescense so it makes sense they could be adults.

 

[Simona1988]

how many are there in total; 50 or 42

More than 42 because it says that the bears mauled 42 of the boys. We don't know how many. Once Elisha turned around and looked at them, some of them stopped jeering (those weren't attacked).

Elisha is between 25-30 years old at this time. Is he actually bald at 25 or does '

go up you baldhead' mean something else?

I don't know about Elisha's age. He was actually bald.

For the Jews of that time, baldness was considered a sign of "falling into God's disgrace" (as explained in the footnote of my Bible). Even more, baldness was seen as bad as leprosy - and leprosy was considered a curse given by God for wretched sinners. In short, laughing at Elisha's baldness, those children insinuated the fact that he is like a cursed man, full of sins and by no means a messenger of God.

The expression "go up you baldhead": Elisha had witnessed the ascent to heaven of the prophet Elijah, a miracle of God. This was known and those children mocked the miracle, urging Elisha - in a sarcastic, atheist way - to repeat the miracle. Obviously, they didn't believe this was possible because Elisha was bold and therefore, sinful and cursed (according to their bias). So, not only did these children mock Elisha, but they mocked Elijah too and ... God Himself, since God chose Elijah and Elisha to be His messengers.

are these 6yr old children or Elisha's peers who have come out of the city without their parents in a pack to threaten him?

They are children, but their age is above 6yr old; their malice and sarcasm is proof of that. They are mirroring the unfaithfulness and idolatry of their parents.

 

[posthuman]

Alright, the children are army age men, thanks for the information.

I was going by the scripture that they were little children.

In the Strong's Concordance it states that it can be from the age of infancy to adolescense so it makes sense they could be adults.

The same word is used for Joseph when he is 30yrs old

 

[posthuman]

We don't know how many

Yes we do. Look at the context. There are 50 total; a remnant of 8 are spared

 

[posthuman]

He was actually bald.

Where do you get this information?