Are we still protesting pagan holidays or did we surrender?

[Cameron143]

Well I just took a close up look at your avatar and you my friend have Christmas trees in that picture. So, sir, you better splain yourself right quick. Before the legalists come after you with sticks!!

I love Christmas. Locoponydirtman sums up my perspective. I just find humor where others don't seem to.
I find reason to praise God whenever and wherever possible. God created everything for His glory. The fact that some have chosen to pervert God's creation and purpose in no way hinders my use of such things and worship through their use. Imagine someone refusing to get married because that's being perverted by some. Or not making a house of wood because trees were used in a fallen manner.
God made this incredible creation for us to enjoy. And in our enjoyment to glorify Him. I choose to enjoy what God has created. Others can do as they see fit.

 

[kaylagrl]

I love Christmas. Locoponydirtman sums up my perspective. I just find humor where others don't seem to.
I find reason to praise God whenever and wherever possible. God created everything for His glory. The fact that some have chosen to pervert God's creation and purpose in no way hinders my use of such things and worship through their use. Imagine someone refusing to get married because that's being perverted by some. Or not making a house of wood because trees were used in a fallen manner.
God made this incredible creation for us to enjoy. And in our enjoyment to glorify Him. I choose to enjoy what God has created. Others can do as they see fit.

Totally agree. All kinds of things that pagans did that we do today and don't blink an eye at it. The program I posted for our church happens in church all over the country. They sing carols, they read Scripture, usually a manger scene is added. Someone will have to explain to me how singing "Glory to God in the Highest" is the doctrine of demons. It's a time to reach out to unsaved loved ones and friends, more inclined to accept an invitation this time of year. People even give more to charities this time of year. The world doesn't see Christmas as pagan, they see it as a religious celebration. As Christian, and that is why they have tried to change the name.

 

[Cameron143]

Totally agree. All kinds of things that pagans did that we do today and don't blink an eye at it. The program I posted for our church happens in church all over the country. They sing carols, they read Scripture, usually a manger scene is added. Someone will have to explain to me how singing "Glory to God in the Highest" is the doctrine of demons. It's a time to reach out to unsaved loved ones and friends, more inclined to accept an invitation this time of year. People even give more to charities this time of year. The world doesn't see Christmas as pagan, they see it as a religious celebration. As Christian, and that is why they have tried to change the name.

I agree. Jesus said He came to destroy the works of the devil. I believe we foster that end as we reclaim that which God made good and very good to its original purpose. I don't see how God is glorified as we surrender creation to carnal use. Watch out rainbow, here we come.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Nothing wrong with celebrating the Lord's birth. The way it's celebrated is important to God though—a distinction many people fail to grasp. People justify all kinds of pagan and worldly traditions in the name of the Lord. In some ways this is worse than if they would just ignore the Lord's birth and dive head first into paganism.

“I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked—I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.” Revelation 3:15-19

 

[kaylagrl]

Nothing wrong with celebrating the Lord's birth. The way it's celebrated is important to God though—a distinction many people fail to grasp. People justify all kinds of pagan and worldly traditions in the name of the Lord. In some ways this is worse than if they would just ignore the Lord's birth and dive head first into paganism.

“I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked—I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.” Revelation 3:15-19

Interested in what that means, other than Santa.

 

[Cameron143]

Nothing wrong with celebrating the Lord's birth. The way it's celebrated is important to God though—a distinction many people fail to grasp. People justify all kinds of pagan and worldly traditions in the name of the Lord. In some ways this is worse than if they would just ignore the Lord's birth and dive head first into paganism.

“I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked—I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.” Revelation 3:15-19

It's a great point. Whether we eat or drink, or whatsoever we do, do it all to the glory of God.
This is a reminder that even in the routine and mundane things of life we are to glorify God.

 

[Mii]

While the ancient cultures of Europe celebrated Samhain.

It was a combination of the autumnal equinox, celebrating the harvest, and remembering their departed who are not there to share in the feast.

No Satan , no Demons.

Says who? You were there?

My issue is not with Christmas in this post (I said what I said). Rather the implication that ALL of paganism is quite harmless to a believer.

Anyone can read an article or do surface level research on things. Having been around the outer edges of stuff like this I am inclined to disagree.


Back in the Old Testament period God certainly didn't see what non-Israelites practiced as "harmless" and it was indeed demons so what...did Satan just give up and entirely leave a people group alone? Perhaps he did, if the gospel was absent and salvation was a non-issue.

I apologize (seriously) if I sound condescending or offensive here but what you posted reads like something off Wikipedia.


What these people BELIEVE and practice is the issue...not respect or awareness of the Earth or simply enjoying God's creation (there's some middle ground there). However, the belief that sexuality is what you make of it or that pharmakeia is OK. That there are many paths that lead to God. That there is no absolute truth. The list goes on and on.

It doesn't really matter what something "was" it matters what it currently is. Modern day paganism has very little in common with Christianity.


That's just a start...I once convinced myself of a neutral zone but it seems that it does not exist.

 

[Papermonkey]

[QUOTE, post: 4989552, member: 282655"]Says who? You were there?

My issue is not with Christmas in this post (I said what I said). Rather the implication that ALL of paganism is quite harmless to a believer.

Anyone can read an article or do surface level research on things. Having been around the outer edges of stuff like this I am inclined to disagree.


Back in the Old Testament period God certainly didn't see what non-Israelites practiced as "harmless" and it was indeed demons so what...did Satan just give up and entirely leave a people group alone? Perhaps he did, if the gospel was absent and salvation was a non-issue.

I apologize (seriously) if I sound condescending or offensive here but what you posted reads like something off Wikipedia.


What these people BELIEVE and practice is the issue...not respect or awareness of the Earth or simply enjoying God's creation (there's some middle ground there). However, the belief that sexuality is what you make of it or that pharmakeia is OK. That there are many paths that lead to God. That there is no absolute truth. The list goes on and on.

It doesn't really matter what something "was" it matters what it currently is. Modern day paganism has very little in common with Christianity.


That's just a start...I once convinced myself of a neutral zone but it seems that it does not exist.[/QUOTE]

Wikipedia? No. Study, yes.And experience.

And no, I'm not thousands of years old. Nor hundreds.

What I am is someone who knows demons and Satan are particular to the Judro-Christian faith.

The idea that people who do not worship our way must worship the antithesis of our father is wrong.

However, what it does accomplish is to allow for a simple world view. Christians right. Non-Christians bad and damned.

Education overcomes presumption.

 

[TheLearner]

rth

 

[Mii]

What I am is someone who knows demons and Satan are particular to the Judro-Christian faith.

The idea that people who do not worship our way must worship the antithesis of our father is wrong.

However, what it does accomplish is to allow for a simple world view. Christians right. Non-Christians bad and damned.

Education overcomes presumption.

I'd like to let this thread go because it's past the "sell-by date" so to speak but this comment brings up further questions. I do appreciate the reply and not dodging what I typed though.

I'm also not trying to foster ill-will or anything here because I've only just recently seen you posting but phrases like "simple world view" and you seeming to call Satan and demons Judeo-Christian constructs I think bears further explanation.

I presume you aren't implying that these are only constructs but are suggesting that they are point of view devices that God uses to operate within a believer's understanding?

If so, I don't particularly agree with that as it "may" imply that God works differently through other beliefs which then implies that it's whatever he chooses for you to operate within (buddhism, paganism, Taoism, Shinto, "insert further isms as desired") and that it's all neither here nor there.

Which wouldn't be a problem except for the whole premise of Christianity (Jesus as the only way to the father). A whole host of verses against this concept of inclusivism really.

You can't really water down Christianity or it doesn't work. There's a reason why people hate scripture, it tells them they are wrong.

Education overcomes presumption.

Education of what? Scripture says what is in error and what is not...I don't see where presumption comes in. Presumption that the Bible is the Word of God? That God is serious? What precisely?



Do you see how I could draw that from your post?






There is more to be said about the "how" one is drawn to the Father and a person's backgrounds and practices and what is absorbable into a believer's walk with the intersection of "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" and "friendship with the world is enmity with God." Among other precepts I'm sure but that is a different discussion...I'd be willing to engage with that if you started a thread about it.

 

[Papermonkey]

I'd like to let this thread go because it's past the "sell-by date" so to speak but this comment brings up further questions. I do appreciate the reply and not dodging what I typed though.

I'm also not trying to foster ill-will or anything here because I've only just recently seen you posting but phrases like "simple world view" and you seeming to call Satan and demons Judeo-Christian constructs I think bears further explanation.

I presume you aren't implying that these are only constructs but are suggesting that they are point of view devices that God uses to operate within a believer's understanding?

If so, I don't particularly agree with that as it "may" imply that God works differently through other beliefs which then implies that it's whatever he chooses for you to operate within (buddhism, paganism, Taoism, Shinto, "insert further isms as desired") and that it's all neither here nor there.

Which wouldn't be a problem except for the whole premise of Christianity (Jesus as the only way to the father). A whole host of verses against this concept of inclusivism really.

You can't really water down Christianity or it doesn't work. There's a reason why people hate scripture, it tells them they are wrong.




Education of what? Scripture says what is in error and what is not...I don't see where presumption comes in. Presumption that the Bible is the Word of God? That God is serious? What precisely?



Do you see how I could draw that from your post?






There is more to be said about the "how" one is drawn to the Father and a person's backgrounds and practices and what is absorbable into a believer's walk with the intersection of "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" and "friendship with the world is enmity with God." Among other precepts I'm sure but that is a different discussion...I'd be willing to engage with that if you started a thread about it.

It isn't watering down Christianity.

The false belief that insists if an ancient people did not worship God or Jesus, by default they're worshipping Satan and colluding with demons is wrong.

There is much that can be gleaned from deep delves into Bible study. Starting with the Old Testament foundation that precedes the New.

Satan is Lord of this world where he holds power because God allows it.

Holding preconceived ideas and preferences for the Bibles narratives does not serve truth or the faith.

 

[MessengerofTruth]

I'd like to let this thread go because it's past the "sell-by date" so to speak

I would not agree... There is no expiration on Truth.

It would be nice to see a discussion and a sharing of Truth throughout the year to be better prepared for this coming December festivities.

 

[notonmywatch]

I would not agree... There is no expiration on Truth.

It would be nice to see a discussion and a sharing of Truth throughout the year to be better prepared for this coming December festivities.

Some people are afraid to truly discuss this topic or other topics because it might require a God-honoring change in their lives that they're simply not willing to make. And I'm not just talking about people here on this website.

 

[Mii]

Holding preconceived ideas and preferences for the Bibles narratives does not serve truth or the faith.

Further explanation? What preconceived ideas?

I read in the Old Testament that God hated worship of idols and the practices involved therein.

Are you suggesting that these false gods were "not" demons? I'd keep going but it really isn't my intent to put words in your mouth and guess at what you are trying to say.

What do you mean by preferences for the Bibles narratives not serving truth or the faith?

 

[MessengerofTruth]

Some people are afraid to truly discuss this topic or other topics because it might require a God-honoring change in their lives that they're simply not willing to make. And I'm not just talking about people here on this website.

Yes, I am aware of that.
I often ask for the love of the Truth that I may be saved.

 

[notonmywatch]

Yes, I am aware of that.
I often ask for the love of the Truth that I may be saved.

Amen.

2 Thessalonians 2:10.

 

[Papermonkey]

Further explanation? What preconceived ideas?

I read in the Old Testament that God hated worship of idols and the practices involved therein.

Are you suggesting that these false gods were "not" demons? I'd keep going but it really isn't my intent to put words in your mouth and guess at what you are trying to say.

What do you mean by preferences for the Bibles narratives not serving truth or the faith?

How could false Gods be demons?

 

[Cameron143]

How could false Gods be demons?

Some background study of baal, ishtar, and molech might help.

 

[Papermonkey]

Some background study of baal, ishtar, and molech might help.

I'm aware of those. Are you aware early Hebrews worshipped Baal? The national God of Israel.

As well as Astarte, aka Ashera aka Ishtar?

1 Kings 11, Leviticus 20, speaks of their worship of Moloch.

 

[Papermonkey]

Yes, I am aware of that.
I often ask for the love of the Truth that I may be saved.

A person is saved the moment they believe. ☺️Not of themselves, so that none may boast they brought themselves into Salvation, but they are saved by God's grace through the faith he bestows.

If you feel in your heart Christ is Savior, that's God's grace. And you are in his Salvation. 💕✝️

You cannot work, I. e seek truth, and accomplish this.

God Bless you.