Are we still protesting pagan holidays or did we surrender?

[Papermonkey]

I don't want to derail the thread but one could argue that Catholicism is pagan because none of their doctrine is biblical but yes it was the Catholics interjected All saints Day in an effort to convert pagans to Catholicism

Here's the thing.

You walked away from God and the faith for your own reasons. Now you can't walk away from a community of Christians but instead inject negativity into all discussions you participate in. That can be seen, righteously judged, as hypocritical.

Your anger is now your occupation.

That's tragic.
I'll pray for you. I won't continue to read you.

 

[notonmywatch]

People like to pick and choose their legalism and then point at you for what they believe is wrong that you are doing. smh

So, if God-fearing Christians who have conducted their own research come to the irrefutable conclusion that Christmas' origins are pagan and/or demonic, then they're "legalistic" for not celebrating it or speaking out against it?

Some of us just like to honor God.

 

[Papermonkey]

So, if God-fearing Christians who have conducted their own research come to the irrefutable conclusion that Christmas' origins are pagan and/or demonic, then they're "legalistic" for not celebrating it or speaking out against it?

Some of us just like to honor God.

Genuine research would not arrive at the conclusion Yule, winter solstice, not Samhain for that matter, are demonic.

Pagans is from the word, Pagani, meaning country dweller. Nothing demonic there either.
While Heathen refers to those who were dwellers on the heath. Again, nothing demonic there either.

I don't believe we can live in this world thinking everyone who is not Christian are demonic or our enemies.

We are all made in the image and likeness of God.

Everyone is looking for an answer as to why we are here and what this life means.
Our faith is a relatively young faith compared to all others that came before to bring an answer to those questions.

 

[notonmywatch]

Genuine research would not arrive at the conclusion Yule, winter solstice, not Samhain for that matter, are demonic.

Pagans is from the word, Pagani, meaning country dweller. Nothing demonic there either.
While Heathen refers to those who were dwellers on the heath. Again, nothing demonic there either.

I don't believe we can live in this world thinking everyone who is not Christian are demonic or our enemies.

We are all made in the image and likeness of God.

Everyone is looking for an answer as to why we are here and what this life means.
Our faith is a relatively young faith compared to all others that came before to bring an answer to those questions.

There is a spirit of truth and a spirit of error. Satan is the father of lies, and the Bible warns us about such things as seducing spirits and doctrines of demons. God did not inspire the origin of the celebration we now call Christmas or Christ Mass. Satan and demons did.

Anyway, I'm not going to waste my time saying anything else, except that I find it interesting that nobody is questioning the motives of the individual here who dug up all of these old threads.

 

[Papermonkey]

There is a spirit of truth and a spirit of error. Satan is the father of lies, and the Bible warns us about such things as seducing spirits and doctrines of demons. God did not inspire the origin of the celebration we now call Christmas or Christ Mass. Satan and demons did.

Anyway, I'm not going to waste my time saying anything else, except that I find it interesting that nobody is questioning the motives of the individual here who dug up all of these old threads.

Dear sisters and brothers in Christ,

Remember the now banned disruptor? I think he's back.

 

[Dude653]

Here's the thing.

You walked away from God and the faith for your own reasons. Now you can't walk away from a community of Christians but instead inject negativity into all discussions you participate in. That can be seen, righteously judged, as hypocritical.

Your anger is now your occupation.

That's tragic.
I'll pray for you. I won't continue to read you.

Actually I wasn't being negative. You're just straw Manning me

 

[Dude653]

Here's the thing.

You walked away from God and the faith for your own reasons. Now you can't walk away from a community of Christians but instead inject negativity into all discussions you participate in. That can be seen, righteously judged, as hypocritical.

Your anger is now your occupation.

That's tragic.
I'll pray for you. I won't continue to read you.

I never said anything negative nor did I tell anyone not to celebrate christmas. All I said was Christmas is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible but if you want to celebrate it then do you. That's your subjective experience
Remember that guy who had a whole hissy fit over kwanzaa?
I've been to a Kwanzaa celebration, I've been to a Jewish Passover sedar
My point is this. Let everyone celebrate what they want or not celebrate what they want and don't judge people
If someone wants to let their kids dress up and go around and get candy, I don't see need to make a federal case out of it

 

[Magenta]

I find it interesting that nobody is questioning the motives of the individual here who dug up all of these old threads.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/christmas.208761/#post-4987999

 

[notonmywatch]

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/christmas.208761/#post-4987999

I stand corrected.

 

[HopeinHim4ever]

My parents never did the Santa thing with us. We always knew it was Jesus birthday. And I advocate for Christmas on that basis. It's harder for a child to understand the cross and Easter. But they can understand the baby Jesus and put on plays that bring parents in to hear a message, like the one I posted from my church, that they would not otherwise hear.

Secondly the world recognizes Christmas as a Christian celebration. They don't relate it to the pagan one. They very much relate it to the church and that is why they have tried to stop the Merry Christmas greeting to change it to "Happy Holidays" which I point out to people is actually "holy days" abbreviated. So that is another I stand with and not against Christmas.

I know this is not common knowledge for everyone, but Dec 25 was actually the birthday of Tammuz, the son of Semaramis, who was anciently worshipped and still is but in in disguised ways... I've heard it compared to celebrating your wife/husband's birthday on your ex- girlfriend/boyfriend's birthday.
Rome did a lot mixing between profane and holy...

 

[Dude653]

I know this is not common knowledge for everyone, but Dec 25 was actually the birthday of Tammuz, the son of Semaramis, who was anciently worshipped and still is but in in disguised ways... I've heard it compared to celebrating your wife/husband's birthday on your ex- girlfriend/boyfriend's birthday.
Rome did a lot mixing between profane and holy...

That's the point I was trying to make and got accused of being "negative"
And I'm not telling anyone not to celebrate christmas. If that's your thing then do you. All I'm saying is don't judge someone else if they want to celebrate Halloween when Christmas isn't biblical either

 

[HopeinHim4ever]

That's the point I was trying to make and got accused of being "negative"
And I'm not telling anyone not to celebrate christmas. If that's your thing then do you. All I'm saying is don't judge someone else if they want to celebrate Halloween when Christmas isn't biblical either

I understand your point... don't want to open another can of worms but Most adventists I know are familiar with the fact that Sunday worship has pagan origins, yet most of them still celebrate christmas. It's just ironic but maybe it's hard to see your own incosistency.

 

[Cameron143]

Every year, on my birthday, there is always a list of celebrities, most of whom do not give any indication of knowing and loving God, who are celebrating their birthdays. I'm still eating cake and I'm keeping my gifts.
If for some reason you are unable to celebrate yours, I am willing to eat your cake and open your presents.
For those who do celebrate, I am an excellent cake taster. No one has been poisoned on my watch.
Folks, whatever day was chosen, someone would have an objection. And if we rotated it every year, the Antirotationists would object.
Just enjoy God.

 

[Dude653]

I understand your point... don't want to open another can of worms but Most adventists I know are familiar with the fact that Sunday worship has pagan origins, yet most of them still celebrate christmas. It's just ironic but maybe it's hard to see your own incosistency.

Yeah I like that no work on the Sabbath thing. That's literally impossible
Imagine your pastor asked you to help move some chairs and you say sorry I can't that would be doing work on the Sabbath

 

[HopeinHim4ever]

Yeah I like that no work on the Sabbath thing. That's literally impossible
Imagine your pastor asked you to help move some chairs and you say sorry I can't that would be doing work on the Sabbath

I think when Jesus came he showed God's heart about the Sabbath. The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath; it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath; My Father works, hitherto do I work...

 

[HopeinHim4ever]

It really is a delight and not burdensome when observed the way God intended.

 

[Papermonkey]

Every year, on my birthday, there is always a list of celebrities, most of whom do not give any indication of knowing and loving God, who are celebrating their birthdays. I'm still eating cake and I'm keeping my gifts.
If for some reason you are unable to celebrate yours, I am willing to eat your cake and open your presents.
For those who do celebrate, I am an excellent cake taster. No one has been poisoned on my watch.
Folks, whatever day was chosen, someone would have an objection. And if we rotated it every year, the Antirotationists would object.
Just enjoy God.

Amen. Just enjoy God.
Do you wonder if all the negativity some seek to interject this holy-day season, if they refuse gifts people give them?

Something else too. The focus on paganism that seeks repeatedly to invalidate Christs-mass.

If we allow that agenda to influence our faith and practice,where does it stop? Do we then wait for naysayers to bring up the history of savior gods prior to Jesus?

Do we then say we can't accept the Gospel because of the list of savior gods and crucified savior gods, like Hesus, also called Eros, in 834 B.C, that preceded Jesus?

There of course will be outrage at that suggestion however, it is contextually sound to bring this up because of the focus some use to empower paganism to disparage Christmas.

I also don't believe atheists judging Christians as hypocritical for any reason has credibility.
God doesn't exist. But atheists focusing on Christians way of life do. That's odd. Though I've known some who claim that obsession is because of our influence in secular society.

Nonsense of course being America is not a theocracy. As these last few years have proven when laws and policies are distinctly not aligned with scripture.

The point is as I see it, and as you rightly observed, just enjoy God.
Christmas falls on December 25th. Not December 21st.
Christmas was never pagan. Because ancient pagans Romans didn't honor Christ.
Especially when Christianity was outlawed before Emperor Constantine.

Dear fellow Christians, don't agree with Christmas? Don't celebrate it. Refuse gifts, don't make a special dinner, don't decorate, nothing at all.

And please, don't try to disparrage those who don't believe as you do.

Because that's a pattern we have when judging the world and that looks bad when we turn it against ourselves in ignorance.

Especially when Christmas was never pagan.

And today's Halloween has no semblance of relationship to All Hallows Eve, Samhain. And Easter has no relationship whatever to the ancient goddess Ostara.

Love God. Our holy-days are empowered by that love.

 

[Dude653]

Amen. Just enjoy God.
Do you wonder if all the negativity some seek to interject this holy-day season, if they refuse gifts people give them?

Something else too. The focus on paganism that seeks repeatedly to invalidate Christs-mass.

If we allow that agenda to influence our faith and practice,where does it stop? Do we then wait for naysayers to bring up the history of savior gods prior to Jesus?

Do we then say we can't accept the Gospel because of the list of savior gods and crucified savior gods, like Hesus, also called Eros, in 834 B.C, that preceded Jesus?

There of course will be outrage at that suggestion however, it is contextually sound to bring this up because of the focus some use to empower paganism to disparage Christmas.

I also don't believe atheists judging Christians as hypocritical for any reason has credibility.
God doesn't exist. But atheists focusing on Christians way of life do. That's odd. Though I've known some who claim that obsession is because of our influence in secular society.

Nonsense of course being America is not a theocracy. As these last few years have proven when laws and policies are distinctly not aligned with scripture.

The point is as I see it, and as you rightly observed, just enjoy God.
Christmas falls on December 25th. Not December 21st.
Christmas was never pagan. Because ancient pagans Romans didn't honor Christ.
Especially when Christianity was outlawed before Emperor Constantine.

Dear fellow Christians, don't agree with Christmas? Don't celebrate it. Refuse gifts, don't make a special dinner, don't decorate, nothing at all.

And please, don't try to disparrage those who don't believe as you do.

Because that's a pattern we have when judging the world and that looks bad when we turn it against ourselves in ignorance.

Especially when Christmas was never pagan.

And today's Halloween has no semblance of relationship to All Hallows Eve, Samhain. And Easter has no relationship whatever to the ancient goddess Ostara.

Love God. Our holy-days are empowered by that love.

No one here is trying to invalidate christmas.
For some people Christmas is a religious holiday and for some people it's just a cultural holiday.
My point is let everyone celebrate or not celebrate whatever they want
My point was why judge someone for letting their kids go trick or treating or putting up some Halloween decorations when the reasons for celebrating holidays are entirely subjective?

 

[Cameron143]

Amen. Just enjoy God.
Do you wonder if all the negativity some seek to interject this holy-day season, if they refuse gifts people give them?

Something else too. The focus on paganism that seeks repeatedly to invalidate Christs-mass.

If we allow that agenda to influence our faith and practice,where does it stop? Do we then wait for naysayers to bring up the history of savior gods prior to Jesus?

Do we then say we can't accept the Gospel because of the list of savior gods and crucified savior gods, like Hesus, also called Eros, in 834 B.C, that preceded Jesus?

There of course will be outrage at that suggestion however, it is contextually sound to bring this up because of the focus some use to empower paganism to disparage Christmas.

I also don't believe atheists judging Christians as hypocritical for any reason has credibility.
God doesn't exist. But atheists focusing on Christians way of life do. That's odd. Though I've known some who claim that obsession is because of our influence in secular society.

Nonsense of course being America is not a theocracy. As these last few years have proven when laws and policies are distinctly not aligned with scripture.

The point is as I see it, and as you rightly observed, just enjoy God.
Christmas falls on December 25th. Not December 21st.
Christmas was never pagan. Because ancient pagans Romans didn't honor Christ.
Especially when Christianity was outlawed before Emperor Constantine.

Dear fellow Christians, don't agree with Christmas? Don't celebrate it. Refuse gifts, don't make a special dinner, don't decorate, nothing at all.

And please, don't try to disparrage those who don't believe as you do.

Because that's a pattern we have when judging the world and that looks bad when we turn it against ourselves in ignorance.

Especially when Christmas was never pagan.

And today's Halloween has no semblance of relationship to All Hallows Eve, Samhain. And Easter has no relationship whatever to the ancient goddess Ostara.

Love God. Our holy-days are empowered by that love.

You can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time. But you will never please all of the people all of the time.

 

[Moses_Young]

You don't see Christmas mentioned anywhere in the bible. Jesus celebrated the Jewish holidays like Passover
It was the Romans who started injecting paganism into christianity. That's where we get December 25th because a lot of the pagan gods were allegedly born on December 25th
So again, I'm not telling anyone not to celebrate or to celebrate. You do what works for you but it's a little hypocritical to judge someone for celebrating Halloween when Christmas is not even biblical

Matthew 2:9-11

9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

As per the point made already, if we celebrate any birthday, surely Jesus' birthday is the most important one to celebrate, and has the most biblical support? If we won't celebrate Jesus' birthday, surely we shouldn't celebrate any?

So, if God-fearing Christians who have conducted their own research come to the irrefutable conclusion that Christmas' origins are pagan and/or demonic, then they're "legalistic" for not celebrating it or speaking out against it?

Some of us just like to honor God.

I think the charge of legalism comes in where one decrees that anyone who celebrates Christmas or supports it is supporting evil.

Amen. Just enjoy God.
Do you wonder if all the negativity some seek to interject this holy-day season, if they refuse gifts people give them?

Something else too. The focus on paganism that seeks repeatedly to invalidate Christs-mass.

If we allow that agenda to influence our faith and practice,where does it stop? Do we then wait for naysayers to bring up the history of savior gods prior to Jesus?

Do we then say we can't accept the Gospel because of the list of savior gods and crucified savior gods, like Hesus, also called Eros, in 834 B.C, that preceded Jesus?

There of course will be outrage at that suggestion however, it is contextually sound to bring this up because of the focus some use to empower paganism to disparage Christmas.

This exactly was the point I was intending to bring up next, but you did so with much more knowledge than me. To me, the heart of the attack on Christmas isn't that December 25th is the wrong date. If this was the case, and those against it celebrated on the 25th of April, or whenever date they believe Jesus really was born (or conceived - the important theological issue is the Incarnation - when God became Man), I wouldn't have a problem. My issue is that the purpose of this seems to be to eliminate the mention of Christmas in association with Christ. And then where to next? The Resurrection, of course, because of yet another long-dead, long-forgotten pagan. The core of the issue isn't about the dates being wrong, or the dates also coinciding with some long-dead pagans (and which dates don't, by the way?) The core of the issue is elimination of the Christian Holy Days, but this effort thus far has been unsuccessful from without the Church, so it is being attempted by sinister means - holy-sounding arguments and justifications to do so from within.