GOD'S WAY VS SATAN'S WAY

pablocito · Dec 22, 2022

If and when we sin, we have a mediator who acts on our behalf before God.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Now various verses in 1st John appear to contradict one another to the natural man.
For example the following three verses.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The above verses contradict the 2000 year old Christian belief that immediately we repent we are saved.

Revelation 3:14-22, the church of Laodicea proves that God's servants, those who seek him and are being sanctified are not saved until Jesus comes into their heart (the Spirit of Christ possesses them)

This time is unknown to us beforehand and that is the reason that Jesus uses the statement - He that endureth to the end will be saved. (God usually appears in a time of visitation of refreshing and we usually at this time we will be thrown in one of 2 camps, either with the sheep or with the goats.

Salvation is the most complex topic in the bible because God is complex and unreachable except through Jesus Christ, who stands in our place. It cannot be simplified as the entire bible is about salvation (and God wrote thousand of pages dealing only about salvation from Genesis to Revelation) The angels and the prophets also were baffled by this salvation thing and themselves looked into it, to see what it was all about.

Peter comes very close (also Paul) in defining the steps of salvation.
1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

God's call to us is first. Those of us who respond appropriately (are obedient) are called elect.
Mat_22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Sanctification is second. Jesus Christ promised us that he would send the Spirit of Truth that would teach us the truth, unto our obedience.
This step is the longest (like the children of Israel in the wilderness who were constantly being chastised and honed into a perfect child of God. Many did not make it. But those who persisted and endured made it. (They are called the remnant)
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Third is Jesus Christ in-dwelling us. (Called the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ)
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Fourth and final is Redemption (which Paul speaks about)
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Paul says this:
1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

I am very much biased towards Peter who lays everything on the line. He also says it is easy for the unstable to be thrown overboard by Paul's writing.

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Another tid-bit is that Peter was apparently given the head of taking care of all of God's sheep. (of who we are a part in these last days) (Paul was sent to the Gentiles of the 1st Century only)

John 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
John 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
John 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

I went completely off course from the book of 1st John, explaining who is a child of God and how it relates to sin. I will get back to it in my next post. (Unfortunately posts are not allowed to go over a certain amount of words.

arthurfleminger · Dec 22, 2022

pablocito said:

If and when we sin, we have a mediator who acts on our behalf before God.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Now various verses in 1st John appear to contradict one another to the natural man.
For example the following three verses.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The above verses contradict the 2000 year old Christian belief that immediately we repent we are saved.

Revelation 3:14-22, the church of Laodicea proves that God's servants, those who seek him and are being sanctified are not saved until Jesus comes into their heart (the Spirit of Christ possesses them)

This time is unknown to us beforehand and that is the reason that Jesus uses the statement - He that endureth to the end will be saved. (God usually appears in a time of visitation of refreshing and we usually at this time we will be thrown in one of 2 camps, either with the sheep or with the goats.

Salvation is the most complex topic in the bible because God is complex and unreachable except through Jesus Christ, who stands in our place. It cannot be simplified as the entire bible is about salvation (and God wrote thousand of pages dealing only about salvation from Genesis to Revelation) The angels and the prophets also were baffled by this salvation thing and themselves looked into it, to see what it was all about.

Peter comes very close (also Paul) in defining the steps of salvation.
1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

God's call to us is first. Those of us who respond appropriately (are obedient) are called elect.
Mat_22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Sanctification is second. Jesus Christ promised us that he would send the Spirit of Truth that would teach us the truth, unto our obedience.
This step is the longest (like the children of Israel in the wilderness who were constantly being chastised and honed into a perfect child of God. Many did not make it. But those who persisted and endured made it. (They are called the remnant)
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Third is Jesus Christ in-dwelling us. (Called the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ)
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Fourth and final is Redemption (which Paul speaks about)
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Paul says this:
1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

I am very much biased towards Peter who lays everything on the line. He also says it is easy for the unstable to be thrown overboard by Paul's writing.

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Another tid-bit is that Peter was apparently given the head of taking care of all of God's sheep. (of who we are a part in these last days) (Paul was sent to the Gentiles of the 1st Century only)

John 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
John 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
John 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

I went completely off course from the book of 1st John, explaining who is a child of God and how it relates to sin. I will get back to it in my next post. (Unfortunately posts are not allowed to go over a certain amount of words.

Pablocito, unfortunately you have taken Scripture out of context, citing what justifies your arguments and ignoring that which does not agree with your viewpoint.

For Instance, you cite 1John:
9 No one who is begotten by God commits sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot sin because he is begotten by God.*

But in order to understand that verse you have to include the next verse with it:
10 In this way, the children of God and the children of the devil are made plain; no one who fails to act in righteousness belongs to God, nor anyone who does not love his brother.

Many take Scripture out of context. And by taking Scripture out of context they distort it's meaning and it now becomes 'Their Word' and not 'God's Word'.

SCRIPTURE IS VERY CLEAR THAT WE ALL SIN AND THAT GOD PUNISHES SIN, EITHER IN THIS LIFE OR THE LIFE TO COME. There's no denying that.

pablocito · Dec 22, 2022

arthurfleminger said:

I don't like to argue again so I will only reprint directly from the bible a few verses (although there are many) and if you feel inclined to enlighten the readers who would read this post, then I would appreciate your explaining the verses.

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
1Jn 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness

Please read these verses very carefully and explain them to the reader, each one separately so that they can understand them, and that there is no confusion, even so that one that is a novice in Jesus Christ can understand your reasoning, because it appears that you are very very versatile in the knowledge of God (by your own testimony)

Lastly I am going to put just a little bit more pressure on you by asking you to explain one last verse. But do not touch this last verse until you are satisfied that you have enlightened the readers to see the light from your explanation of the verses above. Do not use any other verses, just explain the verses above in your own words and from your enlightenment brought to you by the Holy Spirit.

Don't explain this until after you finish the above verses satisfactorily.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

arthurfleminger · Dec 22, 2022

pablocito said:

I don't like to argue again so I will only reprint directly from the bible a few verses (although there are many) and if you feel inclined to enlighten the readers who would read this post, then I would appreciate your explaining the verses.

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
1Jn 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness

Please read these verses very carefully and explain them to the reader, each one separately so that they can understand them, and that there is no confusion, even so that one that is a novice in Jesus Christ can understand your reasoning, because it appears that you are very very versatile in the knowledge of God (by your own testimony)

Lastly I am going to put just a little bit more pressure on you by asking you to explain one last verse. But do not touch this last verse until you are satisfied that you have enlightened the readers to see the light from your explanation of the verses above. Do not use any other verses, just explain the verses above in your own words and from your enlightenment brought to you by the Holy Spirit.

Don't explain this until after you finish the above verses satisfactorily.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide

Pablocito, I'm glad/happy that you included 1John 3:10 in this revised posting from your original. It completely changes the 'stand alone' meaning of vs 9.

1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

NOV25 · Dec 22, 2022

pablocito said:

Not trying to be rude but I won’t debate sinless perfectionism. My goal is to inform you (and other readers) how one arrives at such a heresy.

Wesley made popular sinless perfectionism, but he started with a different heresy, a form of pelagianism.

Pelagius made popular the concept of man’s ability, his unhindered, unassisted power to adhere to the command of God.

However, this pelagian concept of man’s responsibility paired with his ability is actually satanic. It is a root of all satanic religions. Familiarize yourself with Islam, Hinduism, etc.

This is a perfect example of why we fight against all forms of pelagianism, it is satanic at its core and it breeds other heresy.

Reborn-Adopted · Dec 22, 2022

NOV25 said:

Not trying to be rude but I won’t debate sinless perfectionism. My goal is to inform you (and other readers) how one arrives at such a heresy.

Wesley made popular sinless perfectionism, but he started with a different heresy, a form of pelagianism.

Pelagius made popular the concept of man’s ability, his unhindered, unassisted power to adhere to the command of God.

However, this pelagian concept of man’s responsibility paired with his ability is actually satanic. It is a root of all satanic religions. Familiarize yourself with Islam, Hinduism, etc.

This is a perfect example of why we fight against all forms of pelagianism, it is satanic at its core and it breeds other heresy.

lol, your father is satan telling people to live in sin.

Snacks · Dec 22, 2022

pablocito said:

If and when we sin, we have a mediator who acts on our behalf before God.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Now various verses in 1st John appear to contradict one another to the natural man.
For example the following three verses.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The above verses contradict the 2000 year old Christian belief that immediately we repent we are saved.

Revelation 3:14-22, the church of Laodicea proves that God's servants, those who seek him and are being sanctified are not saved until Jesus comes into their heart (the Spirit of Christ possesses them)

This time is unknown to us beforehand and that is the reason that Jesus uses the statement - He that endureth to the end will be saved. (God usually appears in a time of visitation of refreshing and we usually at this time we will be thrown in one of 2 camps, either with the sheep or with the goats.

Salvation is the most complex topic in the bible because God is complex and unreachable except through Jesus Christ, who stands in our place. It cannot be simplified as the entire bible is about salvation (and God wrote thousand of pages dealing only about salvation from Genesis to Revelation) The angels and the prophets also were baffled by this salvation thing and themselves looked into it, to see what it was all about.

Peter comes very close (also Paul) in defining the steps of salvation.
1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

God's call to us is first. Those of us who respond appropriately (are obedient) are called elect.
Mat_22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Sanctification is second. Jesus Christ promised us that he would send the Spirit of Truth that would teach us the truth, unto our obedience.
This step is the longest (like the children of Israel in the wilderness who were constantly being chastised and honed into a perfect child of God. Many did not make it. But those who persisted and endured made it. (They are called the remnant)
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Third is Jesus Christ in-dwelling us. (Called the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ)
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Fourth and final is Redemption (which Paul speaks about)
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Paul says this:
1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

I am very much biased towards Peter who lays everything on the line. He also says it is easy for the unstable to be thrown overboard by Paul's writing.

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Another tid-bit is that Peter was apparently given the head of taking care of all of God's sheep. (of who we are a part in these last days) (Paul was sent to the Gentiles of the 1st Century only)

John 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
John 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
John 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

I went completely off course from the book of 1st John, explaining who is a child of God and how it relates to sin. I will get back to it in my next post. (Unfortunately posts are not allowed to go over a certain amount of words.

Thank God, literally, for our Mediator.

NOV25 · Dec 22, 2022

Reborn-Adopted said:

That was uncalled for but I forgive you.

Forgive them father, they know not what they do 🙏

Reborn-Adopted · Dec 22, 2022

NOV25 said:

You are going to die in your sins.

GRACE_ambassador · Dec 22, 2022

pablocito said:

For those, Under Grace Today, who trust Christ in simple faith, He Gives
ETERNAL Life; He Does NOT 'send HIS Eternal children of light' strong delusion!:

God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Assurance

Thus, the entire Body (faithful And unfaithful members) of Christ
(the 'righteous') Will Depart To Heaven for Judgment (1Co 3:8-15)
Mystery/Grace (Romans - Philemon)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

in the Future, When God Resumes prophecy/covenants for Israel, and
Great Tribulation (Daniel, Matthew, Revelation), with anti-christ:

The Truth In Love quotes the entire passage, not just a 'fragment,' and
then making the wrong conclusion:

"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall

consume with the spirit of His Mouth, and shall destroy with

the brightness of His Coming: Even him, whose coming is after

the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;

because they received NOT The Love of The Truth, that they might be

saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that

they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed

not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2Th 2:8-12)

This is the UNrighteous During The Time of Jacob's (Israel's) Trouble,
NOT 'The righteous who DID Receive The Love Of The Truth,' In the
Previous (Today's) Dispensation Of Grace.
------------------------------
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)!

pablocito · Dec 22, 2022

NOV25 said:

I only read the firstline of your post only as I notice you introduced a new term which was not a part of our discussion. Sinless perfection is a term that needs to be properly defined.

I hope you realize that heart is the source and root of all evil and that is what God looks at to separate the goats from the sheep.

NOV25 · Dec 22, 2022

pablocito said:

I'm not going anywhere, feel free to research any unfamiliar terms and get back to me whenever. 👍

pablocito · Dec 22, 2022

GRACE_ambassador said:

Peter went to lengths to say these things.

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Note: An entire world was destroyed with only 8 being saved (a remnant). And Jesus himself says as in the days of Noah so shall it be in the end.

I should state that it is God who will finally judge every man at the end of time and none of our one-dimensional equations or formulas or methods will come into play, in fact those formulas that we use will come back to condemn us as what we are actually saying is that we know more than God. We are putting words into God's mouth as Israel (God's chosen) did in the old Testament and was utterly destroyed, with only a (a small remnant remaining).

Not believing God or the bible that God will perfect us is like using man's logic of what is possible with God. What is impossible with man is possible with God.

The is very clear throughout be ye perfect as your father which is heaven is perfect. (Again as I mentioned before it is the Spirit of God who does it, mostly through chastisement.) No unrighteous can enter into the kingdom of God. Also it is God who determines when we have been sanctified by examining the intents of our heart and it is Christ who comes in a seals us at the very end.

Nebuchadnezzar a child of God took 7 years living in the field with beasts and living also as a beast, before he relented and his pride left him. His conclusion is in the book of Daniel.

Again do not put God into a box with all types of man-made exposition throughout the centuries, use your own God given spirit to come to grips with the truth. There are no second chances as both Peter and John says that this is the last time. The end of the end.

pablocito · Dec 22, 2022

Truth does not come from the multitude of words that we can muster up or the number of Phd's or Rhodes Scholars that we can quote over the centuries.

Truth comes directly from the Holy Spirit in very few words and is not proved by using intellectual language but by the witness the Holy Spirit provides to us.

1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
1Jn 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

I would warn that people who keep quoting the great theologians of the past instead of quoting the experience that they themselves have has with the bible probably have never experienced God, because they are always quoting the words of others, making those words their own, which amounts to theft, plagiarism, using another person's words as your own.

God has already given us the Holy Spirit, let's not grieve the Holy Spirit or quench the Holy Spirit, because it is a free gift to us. And it is life and life indeed.

pablocito · Dec 22, 2022

NOV25 said:

You sound a bit sarcastic but the word sinless perfection is not in the bible. If it was that important it would have been in the bible. God chose not to put it in the bible. It is a man-concocted word.
Thus, yes, anything that is not in the bible but concocted by man would need my attention to decipher what it actually means.

He that believeth shall not make haste. (Isaiah 28:16)

Isa_28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

pablocito · Dec 22, 2022

GRACE_ambassador said:

God did sent them strong delusion in the wilderness with Moses when he gave them a fiery serpent on a pole.
King Hezekiah eventually destroyed such serpent on a pole when he came to be king.

God gives all of us what we ask for and some of us ask for destruction and God is not going to deny us that destruction. God loves us and pleads with us to go his way, but unfortunately some of us like our own way.

Pro 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

God is the personification of perfection.
He is the personification of Love.

God is the same before he created the world, He is the same today and will be the same in eternity future.

In the process of being the same the details of his ways and methods are unknown to us, but we can see them clearly in hindsight.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

God cannot send strong delusion to the ungodly because they are already permanently deceived.
They already have rejected God (John 3:18)
The delusion is sent to those who claim to believe and those who are lukewarm, and those who are disobedient who refuse to accept the chastisement of God's correction in their life. Many have blasphemed the Holy Spirit by their refusal to submit themselves wholly to God.

This is exactly the same as God sending them a fiery serpent in the wilderness. The Old Testament was written for an example to us.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Heb_12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

NOV25 · Dec 22, 2022

@pablocito in response to both your posts #34 & #35

The late great Wesley made sinless perfectionism popular, which seems to be exactly what you're advocating here. I don't agree with Wesley on this topic but it may benefit you to wander down this trail.

Far greater men like Wesley, Arminius, Calvin, Pelagius, Augustine etc. have thoroughly discussed all topics. When our "personal experience" aligns with elders in the faith, past or present, it can be encouraging. Or if misaligned, can get us back on track.

But if you'd rather trust the voices in your head and your deceptive heart, isolated from elders, thats cool too. <-----Sarcasm

pablocito · Dec 22, 2022

NOV25 said:

Apparently you do not believe in the Holy Spirit. Why don't you come outright and say you do not believe in the Holy Spirit rather than confusing the issue with all types of man-made logic.

1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

1Jn 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1Co_2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I think that it is no co-incidence that you just happen to devise the exact same theology as those men of the 2nd century going forward.

The likelihood is that you studied them, and were influenced by them and thus brainwashed by them.

We only follow Jesus Christ who is our Lord and Savior.

Mat_7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

1Jn_4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

The Apostle Paul speaking:

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Paul here was speaking of the church that it would be decimated by wolves from without, but also by the churches leaders speaking apostasy.

Paul here just before his death, prophesying these things said that for 3 years he cried night and day, warning the believers of this desolation that was to come upon the church.

Can you imagine the spiritual state of the church leaders in the 1st Century according to Paul's prophesy, and now 2000 years later, you have decided to follow those same men who Paul called wolves.

pablocito · Dec 23, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

First off, Moses never taught any doctrine contrary to Christ.
Moses prophesied about Christ's coming and looked forward to it.
Your shadow that follows you around is not contrary to you. Where ever you are, that shadow will always be there, you cannot get rid of it.

Jesus said this:
John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

You are truly teaching man's doctrines and not God's law.
Your sin is not doing harm to another person as you said. If that was the case then your sin would actually be able to send others to hell.

Sin is transgression or the breaking of the law of God.
God is not a man, you cannot harm God.

Eve broke the law of God. She was disobedient to God's word and to his law.

Both Adam (who participated) and Eve hid themselves from God because they were naked and ashamed. That is what happens to a son of God when they break the law of God, they will be naked and ashamed when Christ returns.

Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent

Christ will find many of us naked and ashamed.

Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

In this post concerning God's ways vs Satan's ways:

Many are saying that a Christian cannot lose their salvation. That statement is reckless and careless. It does not say a single thing worthy of response. That statement is indicative of man's true nature. Man-made wisdom, which to God is foolishness. That is why we are told not to listen to man but rather to God (His Holy Spirit).

1Co 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Now if one said the elect (those elected to God's kingdom) cannot lose their salvation, that would be a little bit more sensible, but not a topic for discussion. Why?

Because God has already decreed that it is so.

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

You were elect according to the foreknowledge of God, not because you were good, or because you did this or you did that thing, but because God did the electing. And if you read the rest of the verse you will understand how God did the electing.

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

I will not expand on the rest else this post will not be accepted because it did not meet the requirements of this sites post size.

But God has given us wisdom (those of us who are elect of Him). We can put two and two together.

The morale of the story is that we should not go making up things that the bible did not say, use the words of the bible only. Don't go inventing new words, or inventing new ideas that the bible (God's word never said).

God's wisdom is greater than our wisdom and He did it perfectly in the first place.

Be warned:

Mat_7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Mat_7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Mat_20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

God is no respecter of persons.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Rom_2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

1Pe_1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Jas_2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

This last verse in James 2:9 is particularly important to us. Can you imagine going back into the past and lifting up people and putting them on a pedestal, because of the many books they have written.

We do not even know these people, and because of our laziness we would rather plagiarize their words and make those words ours. This is the height of foolishness.

Luke 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

Mat_15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Paul said this as he was about to depart from this world.

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them

All of the verses that I have quoted above came straight out of the bible in the first century. But even then many people fail to understand and believe in them.
The bible is much much more than quoting bible verses. Yes, Jesus said my sheep hears my voice. But the fact of the matter is that there is so much more, as Jesus said he would send his Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth that would teach you all things and this is where the rubber hits the road. The truth shall set you free (and it comes from the Holy Spirit in our last days.)

I had to cut out part of post because it went over the required number of words. My apology to
Pilgrimshope, as I had to cut out his words, which was not applicable to my response.

Pilgrimshope · Dec 23, 2022

pablocito said:

I’ll just do this to show where your post went off track

“First off, Moses never taught any doctrine contrary to Christ.”

This angel ordained the law of Moses

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So Moses law which he received from that unforgiving angel is like this this is written in Moses law

“And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭19:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭21:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this then is Jesus teaching the contrary spirit

a Jesus recalls what Moses wrote and commanded them in the law

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth ( I just quoted two examples from Moses writings)

but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so Moses taught “ equal revenge an eye for an eye justice repay wound for wound stripe for stripe burn for burn

Jesus the lord ( not an unforgiving angel ) but Jesus he taught the opposite , the contrary “ don’t repay evil with evil , don’t take an eye for an eye but instead don’t take revenge turn the other cheek when offended “

the entire law is contrary to the gospel and do you know why ? It’s given to sinners without the holy spirit it’s given to these people this is the reason it’s contrary

“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭

It’s for them to do this

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

shaving the knowledge of sin and being held guilty before God because we’re unholy and godless sinners isn’t going to help or save anyone it was never meant to that’s why God set that to forgiving angel Over it and set Moses as mediator of course it’s contrary it’s meant for a different purpose

This explains the law in a brief summary
of what I’ve shown you here

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, ( added in because of sin )

till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;( temporary until Christ came )

and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”( the unforgiving angel gave the covenant to Moses to mediate because it’s not the gospel )
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They received the law because of this

“This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us: to whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt, saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices By the space of forty years in the wilderness? Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, And the star of your god Remphan, Figures which ye made to worship them: And I will carry you away beyond Babylon. who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:38-43, 53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses word is for this

“that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.”

Jesus Christs contrary word is for this

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

of course it’s contrary it has to be one law is designed to impute every sin and hold the world guilty before God without excuse

at he other is designed to offer repentance and remission of sins the exact opposite of imputing sin which is accomplished by the law

GOD'S WAY VS SATAN'S WAY

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