Why Do We Pretend to know when JESUS was BORN?

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oyster67 said:
Hope Santa has enough coal to go 'round.
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Oh they throw this hissy fit every Christmas. They have no other issues with their partaking in pagan names, cars, sports. They are so annoying every year. The Gospel is shared at Christmas more than any other time of year. smh They need to get a grip.
 
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Christmas was not always legal in America or in Europe for that matter.

Maybe we might consider we should not act like unto the Pharisee's and insist a Christian can't celebrate Christmas.
It's easy. Choose. Celebrate or don't. God isn't going to judge someone worthy of his condemnation if they chose to celebrate.

Also, a lot has been made of pagans as relates to this holiday. Pagans celebrated winter solstice.
The Farmer's Almanac to this day references Winter's Solstice.
Winter Solstice does not fall on December 25th.

As pertains to the pagans, maybe we can see our early sisters and brothers brought the light of Christ to fall after their celebration. And incorporated some of their practices into a day that honored the Lord through symbolism familiar to them, so as to bring our faith into something they were already familiar with..

Easter is said to have formerly been the pagans celebration to Ostara.

Our calenders days of the week are derived from pagan gods and goddess names.
How do we reconcile that?

No one knows the date of Jesus' birthday.

We know why we celebrate Christmas. God does too.
Can't we find peace on earth in all this?
 
BroTan said:
Then you fix the tree to look good, buy gifts and put it under the tree. Every time you put a gift under that tree you bow down to it.
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This is called legalism. You don't bow to a tree, you bend to put objects under it. Worshiping an idol isn't something you do by mistake. You deliberately install that idol and you speak to it, you believe it has powers. No one does that to a tree. Once the season is over it goes in the trash. You don't do that to an idol. I have a friend that is a carpenter and he had a client ask him to build an altar in their home, why, to worship their idols. A Christmas tree is not an idol, period. You're way out in left field.



BroTan said:
and thou hast praised the gods of silver, and gold, of brass, iron, wood, and stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know

Now what is the tree mage out of, Wood.
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So is a broom, so are some bowls and spoons. So what? None of them are idols, neither is a tree.



BroTan said:
"Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. (Jeremiah 10: 1-5)
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Isaiah 44:12-28

12 A blacksmith works with his tool and forges metal over the coals. He forms it with hammers; he makes it with his strong arm. He gets hungry and loses his energy; he drinks no water and gets tired. 13 A carpenter takes measurements; he marks out an outline of its form; he scrapes it with chisels, and marks it with a compass. He patterns it after a man, like a well-built man, and puts it in a shrine. 14 He cuts down cedars and acquires a cypress or an oak. He gets trees from the forest; he plants a cedar and the rain makes it grow. 15 A man uses it to make a fire; he takes some of it and warms himself. Yes, he kindles a fire and bakes bread. Then he makes a god and worships it; he makes an idol and bows down to it. 16 Half of it he burns in the fire— over that half he eats meat; he roasts a meal and fills himself. Yes, he warms himself and says, ‘Ah! I am warm as I look at the fire.’ 17 With the rest of it he makes a god, his idol; he bows down to it and worships it. He prays to it, saying, ‘Rescue me, for you are my god.’ 18 They do not comprehend or understand, for their eyes are blind and cannot see; their minds do not discern....

Not similar in any way to a Christmas tree. No one prays to a tree, no one expects magic from a tree, it's used for a season and tossed out. You don't do that to an idol.
 
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WillB said:
WB: None of which supports the worldview of celebrating Christmas.

Another forum member has tacitly admitted there's no Scriptural support for Jesus and His apostles and early disciples celebrating Christmas and that the earliest record is 336 AD. Whether the Early Church Fathers celebrated that festival - IF that is the case and maybe it's the case they didn't or maybe only some did - is not the issue. The only thing that counts is truth.

The Lord's Evening Meal/Supper was instituted for the purpose of the New Covenant by none other than Jesus Christ Himself to replace the old covenant and IF He wanted His followers to celebrate His birthday I will dare to say He would have instituted that festival. But he didn't.
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I wasn't comparing it to any part of Christmas. This is a side discussion between the two of us on communion.
 
oyster67 said:
Comparing Jesus to Santa???? You had better take a closer look at that sanity clause.
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LOL

You might want to take a closer look at what is written and you may not 'feel so good'...until the penny drops and then you will 'feel good.'
 
hornetguy said:
I wasn't comparing it to any part of Christmas. This is a side discussion between the two of us on communion.
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Okay. Understood. Is not the form of communion you're talking about in a Church meeting/attendance setting really in effect part of the 'traditions' instituted by clergy?

And isn't it the case that Christians can 'commune' daily and throughout each day '"never cease praying" - with God when we look on Him as our friend and Father.....and that being the case it brings a different perspective to the clergy instituted 'communion.'
 
kaylagrl said:
This is called legalism. You don't bow to a tree, you bend to put objects under it. Worshiping an idol isn't something you do by mistake. You deliberately install that idol and you speak to it, you believe it has powers. No one does that to a tree. Once the season is over it goes in the trash. You don't do that to an idol. I have a friend that is a carpenter and he had a client ask him to build an altar in their home, why, to worship their idols. A Christmas tree is not an idol, period. You're way out in left field.





So is a broom, so are some bowls and spoons. So what? None of them are idols, neither is a tree.





Isaiah 44:12-28

12 A blacksmith works with his tool and forges metal over the coals. He forms it with hammers; he makes it with his strong arm. He gets hungry and loses his energy; he drinks no water and gets tired. 13 A carpenter takes measurements; he marks out an outline of its form; he scrapes it with chisels, and marks it with a compass. He patterns it after a man, like a well-built man, and puts it in a shrine. 14 He cuts down cedars and acquires a cypress or an oak. He gets trees from the forest; he plants a cedar and the rain makes it grow. 15 A man uses it to make a fire; he takes some of it and warms himself. Yes, he kindles a fire and bakes bread. Then he makes a god and worships it; he makes an idol and bows down to it. 16 Half of it he burns in the fire— over that half he eats meat; he roasts a meal and fills himself. Yes, he warms himself and says, ‘Ah! I am warm as I look at the fire.’ 17 With the rest of it he makes a god, his idol; he bows down to it and worships it. He prays to it, saying, ‘Rescue me, for you are my god.’ 18 They do not comprehend or understand, for their eyes are blind and cannot see; their minds do not discern....

Not similar in any way to a Christmas tree. No one prays to a tree, no one expects magic from a tree, it's used for a season and tossed out. You don't do that to an idol.
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I put mine back in a box and put it in the closet. I used to store it on the top shelf but given my propensity to put things under the shelves I didn't want to inadvertently worship it all year long...one season should suffice.
 
Locoponydirtman said:
I have already been over this with you. There is no reason for you to ever address me in any post or thread. Other than to be an antagonist. As i said before; we are done. We habe no conversation. Thanknyou good bye.
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Okay. I understand you. Bye
 
WillB said:
Okay. Understood. Is not the form of communion you're talking about in a Church meeting/attendance setting really in effect part of the 'traditions' instituted by clergy?
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Who do you mean by "clergy" ? Are you speaking of the Roman Catholic clergy? If so, why do you think they instituted the weekly breaking of bread? This practice was mentioned by apostolic fathers as early as 60 or so years after Jesus' death and resurrection.
WillB said:
And isn't it the case that Christians can 'commune' daily and throughout each day '"never cease praying" - with God when we look on Him as our friend and Father.....
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Yes, absolutely, amen.
That is why I think we could partake of "communion" every day, if we wished. Whenever you eat this bread and drink this wine, you proclaim the death of Jesus to the world....

How often did the apostles and first century church eat bread and drink wine? Every day..... we are to remember and proclaim every day... it doesn't have to be in a formal gathering of believers. BUT, when the believers gather, I believe it is imperative that we partake, and remember/proclaim...
 
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hornetguy said:
How often did the apostles and first century church eat bread and drink wine? Every day..... we are to remember and proclaim every day... it doesn't have to be in a formal gathering of believers. BUT, when the believers gather, I believe it is imperative that we partake, and remember/proclaim...
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I agree brother.

God uses the most common things (eating, bread, table wine, crops, water, etc.) to reveal the most profound characteristics of His nature.

That is why, for example, we give thanks for the food we are about to eat: to recognize that all things that are made were made through Christ, and that without Him nothing was made that has been made. This is a reminder that we live and move and have our very being in Him. This, we are reminded of, whenever food touches our mouth or drink to our lips throughout the day.

Believing is a way of life, not something regulated or liturgized for Sunday morning meetings. In Christ we are all clergy because we all have an inheritance in Him. The greatest offense that religion has committed is monopolizing access to God who is our Father. The idea that we have to "go to" something we are (the church) is evil.
 
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Cameron143 said:
I put mine back in a box and put it in the closet. I used to store it on the top shelf but given my propensity to put things under the shelves I didn't want to inadvertently worship it all year long...one season should suffice.
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I just thought, every time I clean the commode ... I've heard of worshiping the porcelain god but this is ridiculous.
 
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kaylagrl said:
I just thought, every time I clean the commode ... I've heard of worshiping the porcelain god but this is ridiculous.
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Wow. It's worse than I thought. Oh excuse me...I have to sign for my TV watching knee pads that have just arrived and none too soon.
 
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