As long as you do not understand that saved, according to Greek translation, means delivered, you will always preach salvation by your good works.
We are saved by grace not works, so why are we to be judged by Christ?
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As long as you do not understand that saved, according to Greek translation, means delivered, you will always preach salvation by your good works.
All raptured believers will attend the aforementioned and thoroughly outlined Bema Seat Judgement.
Correct.
Pardon my ignorance, but what is "Bema Seat Judgement"? I don't see that worded in the KJV.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
We all stand before the judgement set of God... we all are acountable. The saved are covered in Christs righteousness and the unsaved are not.
There is a seperation of the wheat and the tares at the end. All will we looked at to see who are in Christ or not in Christ.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
By their fruits you will know them.
Jas 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:19-23
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Just because you believe does not mean you are safe.
Jas 2:18-22
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Judgement is to determine who really has faith, who doesn't have faith.
Because faith inables Jesus make us righteous.
We all stand before the judgement set of God... we all are acountable. The saved are covered in Christs righteousness and the unsaved are not.
There is a seperation of the wheat and the tares at the end. All will we looked at to see who are in Christ or not in Christ.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
By their fruits you will know them.
Jas 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:19-23
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Just because you believe does not mean you are safe.
Jas 2:18-22
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Judgement is to determine who really has faith, who doesn't have faith.
Because faith inables Jesus make us righteous.
All raptured believers will attend the aforementioned and thoroughly outlined Bema Seat Judgement.
Correct.
a yeah what I’m asking is where are you getting this ?
“All raptured believers will attend the aforementioned and thoroughly outlined Bema Seat Judgement.”
see how that makes no sense whatsoever according to scripture ? But actually requires us to avoid scripture ?
for instance the judgement seat of Christ
“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
Acts 17:30-31 KJV
a because we know this
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:9-
and because we understand this part about gods eternal judgement pronounced in Christ
“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: ( that’s for those who repent and believe the gospel and start doing good rather than evil )
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, ( that’s for those who refuse to accept the gospel and repent and keep selecting evil rather than God ) of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
Romans 2:4-11 KJV
Because that’s the absolute truth for all
Mankind we need to accept the gospel add this into that truth for those who believe
“Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
Luke 24:45-48 KJV
See the judgement seat of Christ is governed by his words in the gospel so because we all have to do this
“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
Romans 14:10-12 KJV
awe need to accept what the eternal
Judge has said about judgement like this brother this is actually about judgement according to Christ this is what we can expect that day
“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom.
For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
Luke 6:36-38 KJV
If we aren’t merciful we shouldn’t expect mercy , if we hold grudges we should expect the same , if we go about condemning people by our perception of thier sin we should expect that at judgement according to the judge
If we want to inherit the children’s inheritance of eternal Life we need to believe in and follow the son
gods judgement is what Jesus said
It has this power
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
Why ? Because if we hear and believe his judgement we’re going to be prepared when we face him that day we will have repented and started believing him and following after that belief
and if we reject it the same words
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50 KJV
We’re going to still face the same word and because we wouldnt hear and believe it it’s going to instead judge men in the other group Paul explained in Roman’s 2
Its repentance remission of sins that correlates the judgement for our deeds and salvation We need to respond to his call to repentance and faith having our sins remitted before that day
If we do that it’s as if we never sinned at all they are remitted and never remembered again
a there’s only one day of jidgement appointed for all the earth the gospel is now here so believers can be saved from the wrath it is bringing so we can come out of that condemned group come out of his wrath upon all mankind
“And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.”
Ephesians 2:1-3
That’s why we needed salvstion we can’t keep living that way is the point just a few paragraphs later in the same letter
“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
Ephesians 5:1, 3-7 KJV
Judgement is definately about eternal life or damnation and thanks to Jesus we have remission of our sins that saves us from our sins if we repent
Lol yes correct if a pastor or teacher is acknolwedgong the gospel which is the foundation even if they don’t become a great revelator or even if things they said and say upon that foundation that preacher or minister is still going to be saved I agreeAll raptured believers will attend the aforementioned and thoroughly outlined Bema Seat Judgement.
Correct.
what condemna people is when they refuse to hear the gospel like the basic findamental truth of eternal judgement
consider the title of your post why do people need to confess repent and believe ?
Because they have to also face the judgement so they want to walk like this confessing repenting and believing
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
1 John 1:8-10 KJV
do you see what I’m saying ? We all
Have to answer for our deeds Christian’s have grace now so they can acknolwedge and confess thier sin , repent and have it washed away before they have to answer for not at judgement
Its true we have to face judgement if we acknolwedge and confess our sins according to Christ , they are remitted before we leave our body so we don’t have to face death at all we’re being judged every day we can when we make a mistake confess repent and believe freely now we get in trouble when we refuse to acknolwedge our sins and won’t repent ( willful sin )
theres a difference in going to judgement having received repentance remission of your sins and going to judgement expecting the judge to disregard his eternal Word that cannot be revoked
We can die in our sins or we can have our sins remitted and live and not have to worry about the wrong we did because we already stood before his throne confessed and repented asking for mercy
she doesn’t the. Hold those same things for judgement they are gone through “ confession repentance and belief “ like your op and like Jesus taught us in the gospel
airs because we do have to appear at his throne and be judged that we need to accept the gospel including the call to repentance and righteousness that’s in the end what will determine our eternity did we hear Jesus ? Or did we reject his word ? One saves and one condemns
Well then you have a very poor understanding of the matter.
As long as you refuse to accept Jesus and his word you’ll probably think that
“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 KJV
“God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
That’s prophetic and this is how it’s going to be fulfilled spoken by Paul to the church
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, ( I’m aware of it so ) we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11 KJV
why would you guys come to a Bible discussion forum and just constantly explain why everything it plainly says isn’t true ? Should that be in a general discussion forum or humanism forum why a Bible discussion forum ?
“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
Romans 2:5-11 KJV
It isn't to pretend the Bible has it wrong that’s going to help but to acknolwedge the truth of what is actually does say that helps
wvery teaching about eternal judgement in the Bible is the same even to the last reference and everyone in between
“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
Revelation 20:11-15 KJV
There’s actually no scripture explaining any different judgement other than the same one it repeatedly warns man is coming that is only an invention of the grace distortion that says the opposite of Gods word
“every man will be judged by thier deeds because God is just he will bring every deed into judgement “
“, no thats not true we’re saved by grace regardless of our deeds “
It isn’t even a real conversation
Gods declaration is always going to stand even if we don’t want to believe his word we still have to answer to it
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50 KJV
that new age grace gospel is destroying minds and causing people to reject the simplicity of hearing and believing the gospel and being saved
Its like this
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
That is Gods word for salvation , but the grace deception sees it and says
“ no one really needs to get baptized that’s a work your already saved by grace “
airs just an automatic subversion of anything Jesus said is meant for salvation and an argument of why it’s not actually true
a just the example of baptism for remission of sins thats something established By Gods holy spirit for remission of sins , Jesus then explains anyone who believes the gospel and is baptized shall be saved “
Paul then dedicates a few different chapters explaining the effect of baptism and how it’s for remission of sins in Christs death and burial , for rebirth into Abraham’s family of faith in Christs resurrection , for the circumcision of the flesh promosed in tbe ot Paul explains it all but
what’s strange is everyone who holds Paul up explains how baptism is an Old Testament meaningless ritual and a work no one really needs to do
to me it’s just foolishness to hear what the savior said bout salvstion , reject it and explain why it’s not necassary or needed or doesn’t really
Mean what he said
a faith can never come from such a conundrum once we decided jesus isnt the one to hear and believe there’s just no recourse until we repent of that idea
What is the treasure we store up in heaven? Can it be stored there if not eternal?
I think the OP Is asking WHY are Christians not only receiving salvation but are being judged/rewarded also on their works AFTER salvation?
what is "saved" in Ephesians 2:8
Ephesians 2:4-5
But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved!
Sound familiar?
Romans 6:3-11
Or aren’t you aware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection. We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. For anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, He cannot die again; death no longer has dominion over Him. The death He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life He lives, He lives to God. So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
(note how we we may be united with Christ in His resurrection, btw)
could Paul's audience in Romans 6 let sin reign in their mortal bodies so that they obey its desires, even though they have been made alive to God in Christ Jesus?
Romans 6:12
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires.
Hence how Paul could say
2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
and
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
furthermore,
John 15:5-6
I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned
Ephesians 2:4-5
But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved!
Sound familiar?
Romans 6:3-11
Or aren’t you aware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection. We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. For anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, He cannot die again; death no longer has dominion over Him. The death He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life He lives, He lives to God. So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
(note how we we may be united with Christ in His resurrection, btw)
could Paul's audience in Romans 6 let sin reign in their mortal bodies so that they obey its desires, even though they have been made alive to God in Christ Jesus?
Romans 6:12
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires.
Hence how Paul could say
2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
and
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
furthermore,
John 15:5-6
I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned
1 Cor 3:8-15 speaks of rewards:
"8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.
10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames."
"8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.
10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames."
βῆμα, which we typically translate as "judgment seat" in 2 Corinthians 5:10, is transliterated as "bema".
Hope that helps
~Deuteronomy
It is in fact the throne of Christ.
Strong's Concordance
béma: a step, raised place, by impl. a tribunal
Original Word: βῆμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: béma
Phonetic Spelling: (bay'-ma)
Definition: a step, raised place, by implication a tribunal
Usage: an elevated place ascended by steps, a throne, tribunal.
It is quite frankly a fearful thing and when asked what did we do with our lives, the answer of "I trusted in Jesus" will probably be met with a "how?" and the immediate understanding that
Romans 2:7
To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life.
I think the OP Is asking WHY are Christians not only receiving salvation but are being judged/rewarded also on their works AFTER salvation?βῆμα, which we typically translate as "judgment seat" in 2 Corinthians 5:10, is transliterated as "bema".
Hope that helps
~Deuteronomy
1st Corinthians 3:10-15
"
Because of God’s grace to me, I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one we already have—Jesus Christ.
12 Anyone who builds on that foundation may use a variety of materials—gold, silver, jewels, wood, hay, or straw. 13 But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person’s work has any value. 14 If the work survives, that builder will receive a reward. 15 But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames."
so maybe you were laxed in like evangelism, and you had the gift of preaching, you did not do your work effectively, what happens is that you will be saved because of the grace but you will still loose your prize....or another instance, God blesses you with property and you were not keen to share with other people, then you will be judged for your lack of generousity....Maybe thats why Jesus said the first will be the last
Mark 10:28-31
"“Yes,” Jesus replied, “and I assure you that everyone who has given up house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or property, for my sake and for the Good News, 30 will receive now in return a hundred times as many houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and property—along with persecution. And in the world to come that person will have eternal life. 31 But many who are the greatest now will be least important then, and those who seem least important now will be the greatest then"
James
4:17
"Remember, it is sin to know what you ought to do and then not do it. "
so if you dont do your work in Christ youll be judged...but not the judgement of condemntation ...maybe people will be shamed on that day...maybe
If you take in consideration all of the scriptures, an do not avoid any of them, and they all harmonize with each other, then you understand the truths within them.
Is John 10:25-30, one of the scriptures that you avoid?
The inspired scriptures were not written to the unregenerate, who cannot discern the things of the Spirit, thinking them to be foolishness, but were written to the regenerate, as instructions on how God wants them to live their lives, as they sojourn here on earth.