Thief in the Night-- Pretrib or Second Coming?

[Evmur]

In pre-tribulational rapture teaching, is Jesus supposed to come as a 'thief in the night' at the rapture, the second coming, or both?


I don't see multiple returns of Christ in scripture, so I can't make the distinction since I don't see it in scripture. But what does pre-trib eschatology say about this?

As I understand

The Jewish nation are to be converted when Christ comes, "they will look upon Him and mourn for Him ... etc" so for them He will come as a thief in the night ... we the church are not in darkness that He should come as a thief in the night.

What will come upon us like trap snapping shut is the end-times persecution and the appearance of Antichrist aka as the great tribulation.

This is what we are warned to watch and stay awake for.

 

[ZNP]

As I understand

The Jewish nation are to be converted when Christ comes, "they will look upon Him and mourn for Him ... etc" so for them He will come as a thief in the night ... we the church are not in darkness that He should come as a thief in the night.

What will come upon us like trap snapping shut is the end-times persecution and the appearance of Antichrist aka as the great tribulation.

This is what we are warned to watch and stay awake for.

How do you explain the Lord's word to Sardis then?

3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.

There are seven churches in Revelation, they are the golden lampstand, Jesus is walking in their midst, in all but one case the Lord commends them for some things, and yet Jesus only tells one church that He will keep them out of the hour of trial which is to come upon the whole earth.

So it seems to me that there are a variety of potential outcomes at the end of the age.

I used to teach HS science and at the end of the year there was a state wide exam. There are several potential outcomes for the students. We never had 100% pass the test or fail the test. We also never had 100% even take the test. You can pass and get an advanced diploma. You can fail but come close enough to passing that they allow you to graduate anyway. You can fail and yet get a diploma that is not "an advanced" diploma. You can fail and have to get a GED, etc. I think it will be the same way with Christians.

 

[Evmur]

How do you explain the Lord's word to Sardis then?

3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.

There are seven churches in Revelation, they are the golden lampstand, Jesus is walking in their midst, in all but one case the Lord commends them for some things, and yet Jesus only tells one church that He will keep them out of the hour of trial which is to come upon the whole earth.

So it seems to me that there are a variety of potential outcomes at the end of the age.

I used to teach HS science and at the end of the year there was a state wide exam. There are several potential outcomes for the students. We never had 100% pass the test or fail the test. We also never had 100% even take the test. You can pass and get an advanced diploma. You can fail but come close enough to passing that they allow you to graduate anyway. You can fail and yet get a diploma that is not "an advanced" diploma. You can fail and have to get a GED, etc. I think it will be the same way with Christians.

remember therefore how you have received and heard ...

... we passed no examinations nor won any diplomas ... we put our faith in One who did.

 

[Mem]

Yes... I tend to hold the post-trib view. If I am right, I pray I am a light, that I hold fast to Christ and not let go, and that I am a pain in the great dictator's butt.

I suspect you are, indeed, currently a pain in the butt...Sorry, I saw the opening and had to... I mean antichrists' of course, and also causing grief for the false prophet. That is, I do follow the rev interpretation of literal locusts with scorpion tails and wonder woman hair understanding but believe it fairly possible an allegorical manifestation of that time may be happening even as soon as currently. However, though we may fall asleep still (as we do in the night), will not be caught without oil in your lamps when our Master arrives.

 

[ZNP]

remember therefore how you have received and heard ...

... we passed no examinations nor won any diplomas ... we put our faith in One who did.

The point is that this church is warned that the Lord might come as a thief to them. Therefore I conclude that it is certainly possible that for some believers the Lord's coming will be as a thief in the night.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

The Lord comes as a Thief in the Night not for believers but for unbelievers. This is clearly explained in the Bible.

1 Thess 5:

"[4] But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. [5] Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. [6] Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober."

Mat 24:

"42“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him. 45“Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Please note that the Lord's coming to Judge the wicked servant can also refer to that servant's death and the Personal Judgment by God that follows it.

 

[ZNP]

The Lord comes as a Thief in the Night not for believers but for unbelievers. This is clearly explained in the Bible.

1 Thess 5:

"[4] But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. [5] Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. [6] Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober."

Mat 24:

"42“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him. 45“Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Please note that the Lord's coming to Judge the wicked servant can also refer to that servant's death and the Personal Judgment by God that follows it.

I love this! LOL. Everyone is so self assured about their understanding on these topics. My understanding is that pride goes before a fall.

1Corinthians 10:12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Hi ZNP. Only the Lord knows all His Mysteries like the Timing of His Final Coming with 100% Certainty.

For the rest of us, we can be fairly assured, from 1 Thess 5, how the Day of the Lord will come. God Bless.

 

[cv5]

The Jewish nation are to be converted when Christ comes, "they will look upon Him and mourn for Him ... etc" so for them He will come as a thief ??in the night?? ... we the church are not in darkness that He should come as a thief in ??the night??
.

And that is where you are wrong. In fact the Scripture says that it is ONLY the DOTL that comes as "a thief in the night".
Jesus says that He is coming FOR THE CHURCH (EXCLUSIVELY) "as a thief"......but NEVER in the "night", which terms is ALWAYS idiomatic of the 70th week of Daniel tribulation.

1Th 5:2
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

2Pe 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Furthermore, once the Church age ends at the rapture, that specific "ORDER" of the first resurrection is completed.

 

[cv5]

Rev 17:14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.