Is it okay to teach your kids to pray to a dead saint?

[Mindwrencher]

Is it okay to teach your kids to pray to a dead saint... like by writing a letter to one and asking for a bunch of toys.

Is it acceptable to lie to your own children and tell them-- using the same mouth you use to say that God split he Red Sea and raised Jesus from the dead-- that a magic fat guy flies around in a sleight and brings presents to all the houses in the world?

Is it wrong to present this dead saint as an omniscient man who knows everything about them, and if they aren't good, that he won't bring them any toys?

Eccl 7:..."29“Behold, I have found only this, that God made men upright, but they have sought out many devices.” ...like teaching kids that Santa Claus brings toys, that it's expected to make a wish when the birthday candles are blown out, or to toss a coin in the "wishing well" and make a wish, to carry a "lucky" rabbit's foot, four leaf clover, coin, rosary, etc.
So many variations on this St. Nicholas theme.
So, is it wrong?
Yes.
Many see it as a harmless custom/tradition and pass up the opportunity to just tell kids the truth and explain reality.

 

[Jocund]

It's the same thing... I don't care if people laugh at my post.. They will discover on the day of judgement the truth of the matter..

A seance is the attempt at two way communication. Prayers are often used in the context of a one way message.

Prayers to Saints (capital S for patron saints), to the best of my understanding are a way of indirectly addressing God (using the Saint as a messenger, envoy, or characteristic vessel of a spiritual faculty that God had endowed them with).

I think there is the potential for abuse for prayer to Saints to functionally become seance-like or idolatry. I just don't think they are inherently that way despite the potential for abuse. Since they are part of the body of Christ (within RCC school of thought), there would be a continuum between them and God and I think that is what the RCC crowd is really getting at.

All of this said, it's not my thing, I believe that everyone has a direct connection to God. But I am hesitant to throw shade at the RCC beliefs because they aren't necessarily idoltarous in the act of their prayers.

If you prayed to your dead grandfather saying in your heart "Grandpa, I wish I had the strength in faith in God that you had in life". Now consider that the RCC counts all members as family. You can maybe start to see where the gray area is and why the RCC practice isn't necessarily as off course as it might seem at first glance. Some RCC members are way out there but I believe there exists a reasonable middle ground where the practice is not objectionable.

If God shines through people, you would be using the memory of that connection through a person to commune with God. I think that's the whole point.

I don't observe the RCC Saints myself, but for the reasons above I find it hard to judge RCC Christians for their faith.

 

[Adstar]

I don't observe the RCC Saints myself, but for the reasons above I find it hard to judge RCC Christians for their faith.

That's your major mistake you think they are Christians.. They are not Christians they belong to a works salvation cult that denies the effectivness of the Atonement of the LORD Jesus.. Thats why they invented the doctrine of purgatory where they say peopl;e go after death to have their sins purged..

 

[Jocund]

People die for many things every day. The Roman church authorized the many deaths of real saints.

34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

6I could see that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints and witnesses for Jesus. And I was utterly amazed at the sight of her.

This rhetoric presupposes that the RCC would be the Whore of Babylon.

Aside from distancing themselves from certain popes, they pretty much hold the line on their authority to do whatever they wanto.

I'm no RCC expert, but I imagine that they would actually have fairly concrete hermeneutics. It would be great to have an RCC expert in here to test.

And nowhere, in the New Testament, did Christ ever kill or order the killing of anyone.

Well, you know, except Rev 19:21, Rom 13:4, etc.

Yet, the god of this world, seen in the Roman Church and in Islam, has ordered the slaughter of untold millions.

It's funny that you would imply that the god referenced in the Talmud would be the God of the Bible and yet somehow you count RCC Christians as devil worshippers.

 

[Jocund]

That's your major mistake you think they are Christians.. They are not Christians they belong to a works salvation cult that denies the effectivness of the Atonement of the LORD Jesus.. Thats why they invented the doctrine of purgatory where they say peopl;e go after death to have their sins purged..

For all I know you are just another Dispensationalist pretending to be Christian.

Roman Catholics are Christian. Dispensationalists are not.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Is it okay to teach your kids to pray to a dead saint?

I can use a phone and talk to a living friend or family member. Is there anywhere in the Bible that tells us that we don't need to be with them face to face or talk through the phone?

 

[RizenPhoenix]

no it is not O.K. to pray to anyone but the Living God. It is not O.K. to lie to children about santa. the truth must be told always. Children are not stupid and deserve the truth.

Is it right, no. Is it fun, yes. They are your children how do you choose to guide them. They trust you, right.

 

[RizenPhoenix]

Is it okay to teach your kids to pray to a dead saint?

I can use a phone and talk to a living friend or family member. Is there anywhere in the Bible that tells us that we don't need to be with them face to face or talk through the phone?

I quote you stated, "living friend or family". The dead are conscious of nothing... Ecclesiastes 9:5. Keep your prayers exclusive to God, the Father and ask them through Jesus Christ the password to God.

 

[Jocund]

I quote you stated, "living friend or family". The dead are conscious of nothing... Ecclesiastes 9:5. Keep your prayers exclusive to God, the Father and ask them through Jesus Christ the password to God.

That's an interesting position.

Do you believe it is wrong to pray to Jesus?

 

[Aaron56]

This rhetoric presupposes that the RCC would be the Whore of Babylon.



I'm no RCC expert, but I imagine that they would actually have fairly concrete hermeneutics. It would be great to have an RCC expert in here to test.



Well, you know, except Rev 19:21, Rom 13:4, etc.


It's funny that you would imply that the god referenced in the Talmud would be the God of the Bible and yet somehow you count RCC Christians as devil worshippers.

Much of Western culture hinges upon Roman Church tradition. That is why it is difficult for one who grows up in the West to know the distinction between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of this world.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

I quote you stated, "living friend or family". The dead are conscious of nothing... Ecclesiastes 9:5. Keep your prayers exclusive to God, the Father and ask them through Jesus Christ the password to God.

I don't pray to people here.
I want to know why they are presumed to get omniscience in order to hear prayers once they get to heaven? The Bible is real clear on who goes there or not. Even raised a Roman Catholic, I never had that explained.
What is their official stance on the special power to perceive over the distance, the prayers of others? I don't find that in the Bible. I've heard it stated so many times, that I thought that would be a major dogma of the Catholic denominations.

 

[Jocund]

Much of Western culture hinges upon Roman Church tradition. That is why it is difficult for one who grows up in the West to know the distinction between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of this world.

If you think the god of the Talmud is the God of the Bible, there really isn't much more to say beyond that.

 

[Aaron56]

If you think the god of the Talmud is the God of the Bible, there really isn't much more to say beyond that.

I didn't say that. How did you come to that conclusion?
?

 

[Adstar]

For all I know you are just another Dispensationalist pretending to be Christian.

Roman Catholics are Christian. Dispensationalists are not.

This website does not support the promotion of the catholic religon.. So your statement that the catholic religion is Christian is promoting the cult of rome on this website..

 

[Jocund]

So your statement that the catholic religion is Christian is promoting the cult of rome on this website..

I believe you meant to post this in the gaslighting thread.

 

[Adstar]

I believe you meant to post this in the gaslighting thread.

Nope.. i do not play games.. I post what i believe..

 

[Jocund]

Nope.. i do not play games.. I post what i believe..

What makes a Christian a Christian? And from your perspective, what would disqualify the RCC from being Christian?

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

The Bible says no one can say Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit. Catholic Christians believe and profess this, just as all other Christian denominations, so we are Christians too: "Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Cor 12:3)

St. Augustine wrote long ago: "By God's Grace and Christ's Favor we are Catholic Christians." This was the way the Early Christians referred to themselves. St. Ignatius of Antioch (died A.D. 107), after the Apostles' Creed, was the first to use the term "Catholic Church", which means "Universal Church - or Church in every nation" (see Rev 7:9).

Anyway, Bible also says if anyone confesses Jesus Christ is the Son of God, God dwells in him, and He in God. We do this, hence God dwells in us: "15If anyone confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God." (1 Jn 4:15)

Finally, the notion that the Catholic Church is Anti-Christ is laughable, and contradicts Scripture which says Anti-Christ cannot confess the Father and the Son, i.e. the Trinity, just like he cannot confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, which only those who have the Holy Spirit can confess: "22Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son." (1 Jn 2:22) Does the Catholic Church do this? Nope. Islam does do it.

Will get back on the Saints in Heaven later. As mentioned, it's not correct to refer to Living Saints in Heaven as "dead". That's what the Sadducees did, and Jesus Christ corrected them, by saying God was the God of the Living, not of the dead. He showed by that statement, from the only 5 books the Sadducees accepted, the Pentateuch (source below), that God, who had declared Himself the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, in the time of Moses, that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were living Saints in Heaven. The Sadducees erred on this issue in part because they rejected many later books including Maccabees which clearly explain the Truth of the Resurrection already in Old Testament times, as well as of Angels and of Spirits/Living Saints etc.

"The Sadducees refused to go beyond the written Torah (first five books of the Bible) and thus, unlike the Pharisees, denied the immortality of the soul, bodily resurrection after death, and—according to the Acts of the Apostles (23:8), the fifth book of the New Testament—the existence of angelic spirits." https://www.britannica.com/topic/Sadducee

 

[Cameron143]

The Bible says no one can say Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit. Catholic Christians believe and profess this, just as all other Christian denominations, so we are Christians too: "Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Cor 12:3)

St. Augustine wrote long ago: "By God's Grace and Christ's Favor we are Catholic Christians." This was the way the Early Christians referred to themselves. St. Ignatius of Antioch (died A.D. 107), after the Apostles' Creed, was the first to use the term "Catholic Church", which means "Universal Church - or Church in every nation" (see Rev 7:9).

Anyway, Bible also says if anyone confesses Jesus Christ is the Son of God, God dwells in him, and He in God. We do this, hence God dwells in us: "15If anyone confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God." (1 Jn 4:15)

Finally, the notion that the Catholic Church is Anti-Christ is laughable, and contradicts Scripture which says Anti-Christ cannot confess the Father and the Son, i.e. the Trinity, just like he cannot confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, which only those who have the Holy Spirit can confess: "22Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son." (1 Jn 2:22) Does the Catholic Church do this? Nope. Islam does do it.

Will get back on the Saints in Heaven later. As mentioned, it's not correct to refer to Living Saints in Heaven as "dead". That's what the Sadducees did, and Jesus Christ corrected them, by saying God was the God of the Living, not of the dead. He showed by that statement, from the only 5 books the Sadducees accepted, the Pentateuch (source below), that God, who had declared Himself the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, in the time of Moses, that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were living Saints in Heaven. The Sadducees erred on this issue in part because they rejected many later books including Maccabees which clearly explain the Truth of the Resurrection already in Old Testament times, as well as of Angels and of Spirits/Living Saints etc.

"The Sadducees refused to go beyond the written Torah (first five books of the Bible) and thus, unlike the Pharisees, denied the immortality of the soul, bodily resurrection after death, and—according to the Acts of the Apostles (23:8), the fifth book of the New Testament—the existence of angelic spirits." https://www.britannica.com/topic/Sadducee

That's why they were sad, you see!

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

That's why they were sad, you see!

LOL!