Why Do We Pretend to know when JESUS was BORN?

[BroTan]

“Tis the season to be jolly.” Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men. These are sayings associated with Christmas, the day that Jesus the Christ was born; or was it? Certainly this could be a description of Christmas. Celebrations such as these were taking place among non-Christians centuries before Jesus Christ was born! Such customs do not come from the Bible. They have nothing to do with the birth of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not originate them, nor were they observed by the prophets (Old Testament) or the apostles (New Testament). We're going to examine Christmas, its origin and customs, and see if in fact Christmas is of God or Pagan. Should it be Celebrated or Rejected?

Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men. Why, because we feed and shelter the less fortunate on this one day called Christmas? Shouldn't we care for the less fortunate all year long? Retailers increase the prices on merchandise, to try to recover from poor sales from the 1st three-quarters of the fiscal year.

Christmas (December 25th) is taught to be the day that Jesus the Christ was born. The fact is Jesus was not even born in the winter season. When Jesus was born, "there were shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." (Luke 2:8). This could never have occurred in Judea in the month of December. The shepherds always brought their flocks from the mountainsides and fields and corralled them no later than October, to protect them from the cold, rainy season that followed. Notice in Songs of Solomon 2:11 and Ezra 10:9, 13, that winter was a rainy season and typically the herds would most likely not be out in the rainy winter season. "It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the fields and deserts about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the first rain," says the Adam Clarke Commentary (Vol. 5, page 370, New York ed.) Continuing, "During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As..the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in October), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And, as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, Jesus was not born on December 25th, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were in the fields by night.

Therefore, to celebrate Jesus' birth date on December 25th is not scripturally sound. Any encyclopedia will tell you that Christ was not born on December 25th. The exact date of Jesus' birth is entirely unknown, as all authorities acknowledge - though by reading the scriptures, it strongly indicates His birth was in the early fall, probably September, approximately six months after Passover. This can also be found in the Catholic Encyclopedia 1967.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Actually the birth of Christ would have been in early September. But nothing is going to change December 25, so enjoy it.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Look up the Feast of the Dedication of the Temple, which was a Festival of Light. It was on Kislev 25th. Kislev is the month in the Jewish year roughly corresponding to December on our Christian Calendar. It's also called Hannukah. Christmas is the fulfilment of that, when the Light of the World, Jesus Christ, Our Lord and Savior, God Himself, visibly entered the world for our Salvation. John the Baptist was probably conceived around Yom Kippur, when his father Zechariah was ministering as Priest in the Temple, which is in late September typically. Now, six months later, which would be late March, Christ was conceived. Hence 9 Months later, around late December, He was born. The true date of His Crucifixion is also Apr 3, 33 A.D. as studies have shown, which was Nisan 14 or Pascha (Passover) on the Jewish Calendar in that Year. See: https://onepeterfive.com/dates-years-birth-death-christ/

"
First Point: John the Baptist was conceived around late September of 3 B.C. near the Day of Atonement.
A Hebrew calendar shows that the Day of Atonement (also called Yom Kippur) was on Sep. 19, 3 B.C. It is the contention of this article that the Baptist was conceived around this time, when St. Zachary was ministering in the Temple. In other words, the story of our salvation began on the ancient Day of Atonement commanded by God, which is fitting. It is here that the Gospel events recorded by St. Luke in chapter 1 really begin to take off.

1:5 “There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zachary, of the course of Abia; and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name Elizabeth.”

As Dr. Marshall explains, a course of Abia occurs in September, and there is evidence in this passage to suggest that the time is around the Day of Atonement, when the high priest goes into the holy place, as we read in Ex. 30:10, Lev. 16:3, Heb. 9:7, etc.

Second Point: Jesus Christ Our Lord was conceived around six months after St. John the Baptist.
Moreover, we know from the same chapter that Our Lady conceived Christ about six months after St. Elizabeth conceived the Baptist. For the Angel says (36), “And behold thy cousin Elizabeth, she also hath conceived a son in her old age; and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren: [37] Because no word shall be impossible with God.”

Now, if the Baptist was conceived in late September, Christ the Lord would have been conceived in late March. Similarly, we can reasonably deduce that the Baptist would be born around late June, nine months after conception.

Third Point: Therefore, Christ Our Lord was conceived on March 25, 2 B.C. and born Dec. 25, 2 B.C.

It is an interesting point that “the twenty-fifth day of the ninth month, that is, the month of Kislev” (1 Mac. 4:22) was already held in honor as a Festival of Light. It is the Feast of Dedication in winter mentioned by St. John (10:22). The Hebrew calendar begins in March-April in Nisan, so its ninth month roughly comes to our twelfth month, December, in most years. It is highly fitting that the 25th day of the 12th month on the Christian calendar should have been set apart for Christ, “The Light of the World” (Jn. 8:12), to make His entrance into the world.

The Baptist being born in late June, as shown in the Second Point, Christ Our Lord certainly would have been born around late December. The witness of Tradition, of very early historical Tradition, is clear on this point.

Bp. Theophilus (115–181 A.D.) stated: “We ought to celebrate the birthday of Our Lord on what day soever the 25th of December shall happen.”

Saint Hippolytus (170–240 A.D.) wrote: “The First Advent of our Lord in the flesh occurred when He was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, a Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, which is five thousand and five hundred years from Adam.”

St. Augustine finally confirms: “But He was born, according to Tradition, upon December the 25th.”

 

[jb]

Feast of Tabernacles 5 BC

 

[pottersclay]

Actually it is believed by the clues in scripture that Jesus was born in the month of march in the time of nisan.
The first day of nisan is the actual first day of the new year which is when all things become new.
It is the time of the lambing in which the shepherds would guard the flocks and watch day and night for ewes to be born. These lambs to be were to be sacrificed in the temple. When born the shepherds would wrap them in cloth to prevent any blemishes or damage to them.
Intresting that lambs are born only one time a year.
Also if you go back to moses time the first tabernacle was finished (the tent) in the month of nisan. It took 9 months to build. (Intresting).
Our GOD is very precise on dates.

 

[persistent]

Ecclesiastes 7:1 A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one’s birth.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Why Do We Pretend to know when JESUS was BORN?

It makes people feel like they aren't really that bad. Give some good cheer at Christmas and it makes up for all the bad stuff you did the rest of the year I guess.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

We dont pretend to know.
However the date wasnt arbitrarily chosen.
I dont know why anyone would disparage the celebration of the coming of salvation even if the exact day isnt known.

 

[ResidentAlien]

We dont pretend to know.
However the date wasnt arbitrarily chosen.
I dont know why anyone would disparage the celebration of the coming of salvation even if the exact day isnt known.

I don't disparage the coming of Jesus, that's why I don't observe Christmas.

 

[Eli1]

Oh look. Another “I hate Christmas thread”
@Lynx , did we meet the quota for this year?

 

[Ted01]

This could never have occurred in Judea in the month of December. The shepherds always brought their flocks from the mountainsides and fields and corralled them no later than October, to protect them from the cold, rainy season that followed. Notice in Songs of Solomon 2:11 and Ezra 10:9, 13, that winter was a rainy season and typically the herds would most likely not be out in the rainy winter season. "It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the fields and deserts about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the first rain," says the Adam Clarke Commentary (Vol. 5, page 370, New York ed.) Continuing, "During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As..the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in October), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And, as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, Jesus was not born on December 25th, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were in the fields by night.

Having grown-up in rural farming communities, this idea of no flocks in the fields, always confounded me? What do people
think herdsmen did with their flocks... corral them all in the living room for 3-4 months?
While they probably weren't out in the back 40, animals are still kept in fields, just closer to "home" and shelter, etc.

I really don't think that we can use a few verses that talk about where the herds where on a particular day to zero in on
an actual time of year.

 

[iamsoandso]

“Tis the season to be jolly.” Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men. These are sayings associated with Christmas, the day that Jesus the Christ was born; or was it? Certainly this could be a description of Christmas. Celebrations such as these were taking place among non-Christians centuries before Jesus Christ was born! Such customs do not come from the Bible. They have nothing to do with the birth of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not originate them, nor were they observed by the prophets (Old Testament) or the apostles (New Testament). We're going to examine Christmas, its origin and customs, and see if in fact Christmas is of God or Pagan. Should it be Celebrated or Rejected?

Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men. Why, because we feed and shelter the less fortunate on this one day called Christmas? Shouldn't we care for the less fortunate all year long? Retailers increase the prices on merchandise, to try to recover from poor sales from the 1st three-quarters of the fiscal year.

Christmas (December 25th) is taught to be the day that Jesus the Christ was born. The fact is Jesus was not even born in the winter season. When Jesus was born, "there were shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." (Luke 2:8). This could never have occurred in Judea in the month of December. The shepherds always brought their flocks from the mountainsides and fields and corralled them no later than October, to protect them from the cold, rainy season that followed. Notice in Songs of Solomon 2:11 and Ezra 10:9, 13, that winter was a rainy season and typically the herds would most likely not be out in the rainy winter season. "It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the fields and deserts about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the first rain," says the Adam Clarke Commentary (Vol. 5, page 370, New York ed.) Continuing, "During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As..the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in October), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And, as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, Jesus was not born on December 25th, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were in the fields by night.

Therefore, to celebrate Jesus' birth date on December 25th is not scripturally sound. Any encyclopedia will tell you that Christ was not born on December 25th. The exact date of Jesus' birth is entirely unknown, as all authorities acknowledge - though by reading the scriptures, it strongly indicates His birth was in the early fall, probably September, approximately six months after Passover. This can also be found in the Catholic Encyclopedia 1967.

I would just begin with the Hebrew calendar or try to figure out why Jews don't follow birthdays in the same manner as everyone else first. Lets say you were born on June 10th,,,well if the year you were born had 384 days in it but the next year had 353 then what day is your birthday the next year? I suppose every 19 or so years a lunar calendar would have your birthday fall on June 10th again but by the time you were 80 you wouldn't have but 4 birthdays in a lifetime. Well or if we really press the point we could follow the solar calender's and say we were born on June 10th but then next year comparing it to a Hebrew calendar it might not come until July or August. Hebrew birthdays are really fun,,,depending on which calendar you choose to use mine falls on May the 12th,,,June 4th,,July the 6th and August the 4th feel free to send me gifts if you like... https://www.britannica.com/topic/Jewish-religious-year

 

[studentoftheword]

Interesting read here ====

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/The_Pagan_Beliefs_Surrounding_Christmas/The_Date_Jesus_was_Born

The Pagan Beliefs Surrounding Christmas/The Date Jesus was Born

Was Jesus born on December 25?[edit | edit source]
The Bible doesn't explicitly state the date of Jesus' birth, but it does give clues. Luke 2:8-14 speaks of shepherds living outdoor and tending to a flock of sheep. The text reads, "And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." Some people have concluded that this would be an unlikely practice in the month of December, for it is argued that the weather conditions would be too cold to live outside or tend to a flock of sheep.

On the other hand, the lands immediately to the east of Bethlehem begin to descend sharply down toward the Dead Sea, so that it is much warmer, even in December. Shepherds would not keep their sheep in the immediate vicinity of Bethlehem at any time of the year since sheep are always kept away from farmlands so as to avoid the sheep eating crops. It is therefore reasonable that the birth of Christ took place at any time of the year, including December.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Book of Luke tells us that John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus, [Luke 1:26]. The book also tells us when John was conceived so it is possible to approximate the time of John's birth...and that of Jesus.

John's father, Zechariah, served as a priest in the division of Abijah, [Luke 1:5]. His priestly duty entailed one week of temple service every year plus three more weeks during the three yearly festivals.

His division was the eighth so his period of temple service began in the eighth week of the year, [I Chronicles 24:10]. The Hebrew year, being lunar, began in the spring around late March early April. The eighth week would then generally fall around the first of June the way we show the months of the year on our calendar.

Luke 1:23-24 tells us that Elizabeth, John's mother, became pregnant right after Zechariah's service in the temple. This would have been mid June....approximately. This means that John the Baptist would have been born around mid March....or close to Passover. Jesus would have been conceived in John's sixth gestational month by the Holy Spirit, [Luke 1:26] which would have been December....so Jesus would have been born around the middle of September. This event would have probably taken place about the time of the last Hebrew Holiday of Sukkot,(Feast of Tabernacles). Since everyone was expected to travel to Jerusalem for the three annual feasts this is probably the real reason why there was no room in the inn.

During the Feast Days the normal population of Jerusalem, 120,000, would probably swell to well over 1,500,000 folks. This would not be the case in the Month of December as there were no annual Feast Days then. Bethlehem, being a "suburb" of Jerusalem would likely fill up quickly with the overflow. This time would also be consistent with the shepherds still in the fields during September. The weather in Israel during December can be quite cold so flocks are usually brought into shelter no later than the middle of October.

The 25th of December date is not scriptural and as you can see by the above evidence is not likely.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I don't disparage the coming of Jesus, that's why I don't observe Christmas.

it’s just a day set aside once a year to celebrate the gift God has given mankind. United stayed was founded by a majority of Christian believers ( there’s always been atheists also but when founded predominately people were Christian believers of the Bible.

When you create a holiday it’s usually a day to remember something that occurred and celebrate it memorialize it keep it in remembrance

it doesn’t really make the claim Jesus was born in December 25th but has dedicated that day to remember his birth whichever day it occurred upon

that’s the original idea around celebrating Christmas or “ the day of Christs birth “ im assuming way back in the early church they probably held it as an important thing to remember that Christ the savior was born

Over time the world corrupts everything so you have “ Santa “ the mass commercialization , selling toys cresting covetousness and twisting it from its original intent so much as more children know about a fat man in a red suit who breaks and enters thier home flying around with a team or magical reindeer dropping off presents based on wives tales lumps of coal or presents based on behaviors

as d fewer and fewer take a day a year to tell their children the story of Jesus the lords birth , and the gift God has given mankind

a I don’t think it’s bad to celebrate and remember the lord was born to save us , but like everything given of God , man puts our hands in it and twists it all up stealing any value it has

 

[hornetguy]

Therefore, to celebrate Jesus' birth date on December 25th is not scripturally sound.

Celebrating Jesus' birth has nothing to do with being scripturally sound. It's simply a remembrance. It's not a requirement, it's a voluntary celebration of remembering Jesus and his birth. If you don't want to celebrate it.... don't.

 

[Dean4u2c]

“Tis the season to be jolly.” Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men. These are sayings associated with Christmas, the day that Jesus the Christ was born; or was it? Certainly this could be a description of Christmas. Celebrations such as these were taking place among non-Christians centuries before Jesus Christ was born! Such customs do not come from the Bible. They have nothing to do with the birth of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not originate them, nor were they observed by the prophets (Old Testament) or the apostles (New Testament). We're going to examine Christmas, its origin and customs, and see if in fact Christmas is of God or Pagan. Should it be Celebrated or Rejected?

Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men. Why, because we feed and shelter the less fortunate on this one day called Christmas? Shouldn't we care for the less fortunate all year long? Retailers increase the prices on merchandise, to try to recover from poor sales from the 1st three-quarters of the fiscal year.

Christmas (December 25th) is taught to be the day that Jesus the Christ was born. The fact is Jesus was not even born in the winter season. When Jesus was born, "there were shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." (Luke 2:8). This could never have occurred in Judea in the month of December. The shepherds always brought their flocks from the mountainsides and fields and corralled them no later than October, to protect them from the cold, rainy season that followed. Notice in Songs of Solomon 2:11 and Ezra 10:9, 13, that winter was a rainy season and typically the herds would most likely not be out in the rainy winter season. "It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the fields and deserts about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the first rain," says the Adam Clarke Commentary (Vol. 5, page 370, New York ed.) Continuing, "During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As..the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in October), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And, as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, Jesus was not born on December 25th, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were in the fields by night.

Therefore, to celebrate Jesus' birth date on December 25th is not scripturally sound. Any encyclopedia will tell you that Christ was not born on December 25th. The exact date of Jesus' birth is entirely unknown, as all authorities acknowledge - though by reading the scriptures, it strongly indicates His birth was in the early fall, probably September, approximately six months after Passover. This can also be found in the Catholic Encyclopedia 1967.

The truth of the matter is that on Dec 25, Jesus was conceived in Mary by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit as written in Luke 1:26-35. Nine months later, Jesus was born on Sept 29, during the feast of tabernacles, when the herds and shepherds would still be in the fields. This is all based on the date of the course of Abia that Zacharias served between June 13-19. After Zacharias' service he went home and impregnated Elisabeth according to the word of the angel of the Lord as written in Luke 1:11-17. The Lord was conceived on Dec 25, six months after Elisabeth became pregnant by Zacharias. Jesus indeed began living among men as he was conceived in Mary on Dec 25. His conception should be celebrated on Dec 25 as well as his birth on Sept 29. The whole first chapter of Luke explains the conception and birth of Jesus in connection with the conception of John the baptist.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The truth of the matter is that on Dec 25, Jesus was conceived in Mary by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit as written in Luke 1:26-35. Nine months later, Jesus was born on Sept 29, during the feast of tabernacles, when the herds and shepherds would still be in the fields. This is all based on the date of the course of Abia that Zacharias served between June 13-19. After Zacharias' service he went home and impregnated Elisabeth according to the word of the angel of the Lord as written in Luke 1:11-17. The Lord was conceived on Dec 25, six months after Elisabeth became pregnant by Zacharias. Jesus indeed began living among men as he was conceived in Mary on Dec 25. His conception should be celebrated on Dec 25 as well as his birth on Sept 29. The whole first chapter of Luke explains the conception and birth of Jesus in connection with the conception of John the baptist.

ado you realize how the calandar has changed ? Even if we knew the date it wouldn’t fall on the same day every year according to the Anglo Saxon calendar the world currently goes by the way it’s structured it would constantly change according to our keeping of time by the Julian calendar

some don’t realize we actually don’t know the true date we lost time when the whole calandar fiasco happened in rome

Its really Impossible to calculate empirically what date Jesus was born upon using the Julian calandar

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I don't disparage the coming of Jesus, that's why I don't observe Christmas.

Sorry. I didnt intend to imply that you personally were being disparaging. That was intended as a general statement.
I think its just find to not celebrate any "holidays". I just play the christian liberty card here, amd call it things not commanded nor forbidden.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Sorry. I didnt intend to imply that you personally were being disparaging. That was intended as a general statement.
I think its just find to not celebrate any "holidays". I just play the christian liberty card here, amd call it things not commanded nor forbidden.

No worries. I know you weren't talking to me personally. I was just making a general comment.

 

[wattie]

We dont pretend to know.
However the date wasnt arbitrarily chosen.
I dont know why anyone would disparage the celebration of the coming of salvation even if the exact day isnt known.

Yeah.. replacing the pagan festival with a christian one is a good thing. Although I guess the trouble being, the pagan part of it can be celebrated at the same time by those who oppose christianity.