Struggling reading through romans 8 & 9 and Calvinism.

[Pilgrimshope]

There is a three in one Godhead, but they each have different functions. John 6:39 states that Jesus died only for those that His Father gave to him, not for all mankind.

“and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he died for all Mankind and then spoke to them and said “ if you hear me and believe your going to have everlasting life “

 

[oyster67]

oyster67 said:
Men must accept this payment in order to profit from it.

You probably have a scripture to back this statement up. Let's hear it.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

 

[Pilgrimshope]

oyster67 said:
Men must accept this payment in order to profit from it.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:13-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[JohnRH]

There is a three in one Godhead, but they each have different functions. John 6:39 states that Jesus died only for those that His Father gave to him, not for all mankind.

John 6:39 doesn't mention Jesus' dying at all.
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. John 6:39 (KJV)

Here's the mention of Jesus' death in chapter 6:
... and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. John 6:51 (KJV)
Therefore Jesus died for all mankind.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Calvinism describes the state of old Man who is inherantly a sinner and in a state where he’s a captive to the struggle of good and evil “ I can’t make a choice I’m not capable of doing good God will destroy or save me and nothing I do can change that “

You might ought to read 1 Cor 2:14, carefully, before making a statement like this.

But the natural man "receiveth not" (this is a choice he makes) the things of the Spirit of God: (why does he make this choice?), because they are foolishness unto him, "neither can he know them", (why?), because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Remember who it is that can hear and believe in spiritual things. It is not the natural man, because he has not yet been quickened to the new spiritual life.

You, must not realise that the scriptures are written to those who are already born again, and not to the natural man that cannot discern spiritual things.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

This applies to us as well. Whenever we commit a sin, we are the servant of sin, until we repent. The natural man is the servant of sin, and will not repent of it.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Knowing the truth will not make you free eternally, but it will make you free from being ignorant of the truth.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

Even though we are under grace, we still, at times, yield our bodies to the desires of the flesh, and obey those desires.

 

[Beckie]

it s no wonder dispensationist show a low view of Jesus . The Arminian doctrine believes the Sacrifice of Christ is a failure .

“and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he died for all Mankind and then spoke to them and said “ if you hear me and believe your going to have everlasting life “

 

[ForestGreenCook]

whether of sin unto death, ( one choice ) or of obedience unto righteousness? ( the other choice )

Death=separation. When we commit a sin, we separate ourselves from our fellowship with God, temporary, until we repent, which does not separate us from our eternal inheritance, which was promised to us on the cross. because God will not fellowship sin, even turning his back on his own Son, during the three hours of darkness on the cross as he bore the sins of those that his Father gave to him.

 

[oyster67]

Death=separation. When we commit a sin, we separate ourselves from our fellowship with God, temporary, until we repent, which does not separate us from our eternal inheritance, which was promised to us on the cross. because God will not fellowship sin, even turning his back on his own Son, during the three hours of darkness on the cross as he bore the sins of those that his Father gave to him.

Agree.

Only a willful and unrepented-of turn into apostacy will cause us to lose our salvation.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

airs a veil shutting our eyes to the freedom he’s freely provided for us to make the right choice of who we’re going to yield ourselves to satans Will ? Or Gods ?

And we both know that both of us do, at times, yield ourselves to satan's will, until we repent. If you say that you do not sin, you are a lier, and the truth is not in you.

 

[oyster67]

And we both know that both of us do, at times, yield ourselves to satan's will, until we repent. If you say that you do not sin, you are a lier, and the truth is not in you.

Agree. Repentance is one of the differences between the sinner and the saint.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Agree.

Only a willful and unrepented-of turn into apostacy will cause us to lose our salvation.

Christ died on the cross and redeemed those that God gave him from their sins (all sins). Because of the redemption, God says that their sins are as far away as the east is from the west, and he remembers them no more, as pertaining to their eternal inheritance.

After we have been born again, we do, however, commit sins, that separates us from our fellowship with God, until we repent. We are chastened by God for them as we sojourn here on earth, but they do not erase our eternal inheritance.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Agree. Repentance is one of the differences between the sinner and the saint.

Can you explain what you mean by "the sinner and the saint"?

 

[oyster67]

their sins are as far away as the east is from the west, and he remembers them no more, as pertaining to their eternal inheritance.

Their sins are as far away as the east is from the west, and he remembers them no more, as pertaining to their past sins.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

“and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he died for all Mankind and then spoke to them and said “ if you hear me and believe your going to have everlasting life “

There is a "world that God loves", which is the world in 1 John 2:2, and also in John 3:16, and more, but there is, also, a "world that God hates";

Rom 9:13 - As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Thayer's definition of the word "world" in John 3:16 - Any aggregate, or general collection of particulars of any sort. The Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews. Used of believers only, John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19.

John 17:9 - I pray not for the world.

John 17:14 - I have given them thy word, and the world hath hated them.

John 14:17 - Even the Spirit, whom the world cannot receive.

John 15:18-19 - If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me, before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own, but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 16:20 - Verley, Verley, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice, and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

 

[oyster67]

Rom 9:13 - As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

This is simply saying that God has a special plan for the Jews. This is a reference to two groups of people, not individuals. God's wrath will be unleashed upon the enemies of Jacob during the future time of Jacob's troubles.
We are the Church. We will be in Heaven at this time.

Romans 9:15
“For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.”

God has special plans for the end time Jewish remnant...
Revelation 12:6
“And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.”

 

[ForestGreenCook]

John 6:39 doesn't mention Jesus' dying at all.
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. John 6:39 (KJV)

Here's the mention of Jesus' death in chapter 6:
... and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. John 6:51 (KJV)
Therefore Jesus died for all mankind.

If the whole world of mankind was who God gave to Jesus, then we would have to consider that he would raise them all up again at the last day, without the loss of any, and I am guessing that we both know that will not harmonize with the other scriptures.


John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me, shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I shall in no wise cast out ( is this all of mankind that will come to him?).

John 10:26-29 - But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

1 Cor 15:3 - For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for "our" sins according to the scriptures.

1 Cor 1:1 - tells us that the "our" is them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints.