Struggling reading through romans 8 & 9 and Calvinism.
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“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
Genesis 2:16-17 KJV
“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”
Genesis 3:4-5
a whenever we are told contrary things like “ don’t eat the fruit you’ll surely die “
And “ you will not surely die it will make you wise like gods “
awe now cannot avoid a choice of who to believe
“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
Deuteronomy 30:19
the New Testament whenever we hear the gospel and then a voice explaining contrary things we’re offered a choice of who to believe
awe can believe what Jesus the lord said , or what people say later that’s opposed
whenever there is two offerings we have no choice but , to choose which to accept.
“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
John 18:37 KJV
If we stick with Jesus it’s going to cause us to reject the things opposed and make our choice for us
Genesis 2:16-17 KJV
“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”
Genesis 3:4-5
a whenever we are told contrary things like “ don’t eat the fruit you’ll surely die “
And “ you will not surely die it will make you wise like gods “
awe now cannot avoid a choice of who to believe
“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
Deuteronomy 30:19
the New Testament whenever we hear the gospel and then a voice explaining contrary things we’re offered a choice of who to believe
awe can believe what Jesus the lord said , or what people say later that’s opposed
whenever there is two offerings we have no choice but , to choose which to accept.
“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
John 18:37 KJV
If we stick with Jesus it’s going to cause us to reject the things opposed and make our choice for us
That may or may not be true. Nobody really knows IMO. And frankly it is impossible to know.
What we DO KNOW, is simply this:
That if you say "yes" to Jesus....He will save you.
That if you say "no" to Jesus....He will not save you.
And from our perspective, that's all we've got to work with.
This business of reading God's mind and speculating on man's capacity to believe or not is folly IMO.
What we DO KNOW, is simply this:
That if you say "yes" to Jesus....He will save you.
That if you say "no" to Jesus....He will not save you.
And from our perspective, that's all we've got to work with.
This business of reading God's mind and speculating on man's capacity to believe or not is folly IMO.
I don't think you ever responded to post #412, but the point of the Potter and the clay is,
O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so arey e in mine hand, O house of Israel. Jer.18:6
In vss.7-10, he tells us people are formed based on their respect or lack thereof for him. Read the text. His meaning is plain.
By "natural man", Paul means men who are concerned only with fleshly desires. Paul says,
I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling....That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. 1Cor.2:3,5
You're teaching is opposed to this, because you believe how Paul conducted himself had nothing to do with them having faith in God. You're wrong.
Jesus' sacrifice demonstrated his oneness with his Dad, as our Father patiently endures sins against himself every day. Verses you cite below also show this.
QUOTE="ForestGreenCook, post: 4973541, member: 272369"]
There was no repentance of sins, from those that Christ died to redeem them of their sins.[/quote]
Yes there was repentance,
The men of Nineveh shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. Lk.11:32
It's plain they could have and should have repented and there are many examples of people repenting.
If you would look at why Jesus is saying what he's saying in these passages you're citing, you would see he's identifying himself with his Father.
They were questioning his identity. He's saying if they truly learned about God, they would come to him. If they wee Gods' sheep, they would follow him.
Ok. Then this is a meaningless warning,
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not Jde.1:5
O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so arey e in mine hand, O house of Israel. Jer.18:6
In vss.7-10, he tells us people are formed based on their respect or lack thereof for him. Read the text. His meaning is plain.
By "natural man", Paul means men who are concerned only with fleshly desires. Paul says,
I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling....That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. 1Cor.2:3,5
You're teaching is opposed to this, because you believe how Paul conducted himself had nothing to do with them having faith in God. You're wrong.
Jesus' sacrifice demonstrated his oneness with his Dad, as our Father patiently endures sins against himself every day. Verses you cite below also show this.
QUOTE="ForestGreenCook, post: 4973541, member: 272369"]
There was no repentance of sins, from those that Christ died to redeem them of their sins.[/quote]
Yes there was repentance,
The men of Nineveh shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. Lk.11:32
It's plain they could have and should have repented and there are many examples of people repenting.
If you would look at why Jesus is saying what he's saying in these passages you're citing, you would see he's identifying himself with his Father.
They were questioning his identity. He's saying if they truly learned about God, they would come to him. If they wee Gods' sheep, they would follow him.
Ok. Then this is a meaningless warning,
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not Jde.1:5
Oh absolutely we are being conformed into his image, which allowed people to spit on him. I can attest it's ongoing. It has taken me most of my life to have that kind of faith in him. And I still get attacked with that often. But the thing I can't get out of my heart, is that our Creator visited us, and people crucified him. Dear Jesus. If we would only view all sin that way, we would never do it.
Yes, it does matter whether God may give someone a repentant heart by how we present it, in meekness, as God may deem that act alone, or along with other kind acts believers have shown unbelievers, enough for them to have believed.
I think the symbolism of OT sin offerings are amazing.
Yes, it does matter whether God may give someone a repentant heart by how we present it, in meekness, as God may deem that act alone, or along with other kind acts believers have shown unbelievers, enough for them to have believed.
I think the symbolism of OT sin offerings are amazing.
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If you are quoting Eph 2:8-9, The faith in verse 8, is not mankind's faith, but is Jesus faith that justifies us (Gal 2:16). If you apply the faith in verse 8, as mankind's faith, it will contradict Gal 2:16.
A person does not have spiritual faith until they have been quickened, by God, to the new spiritual life (born again) and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22).
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wonderful thoughts
“It has taken me most of my life to have that kind of faith in him. And I still get attacked with that often. But the thing I can't get out of my heart, is that our Creator visited us, and people crucified him. Dear Jesus. If we would only view all sin that way, we would never do it.”
yes i agree completely I think the process is a life long one we are planted and we begin to sprout , then grow and produce a stock and leaves , and later buds begin to form and still later they mature and eventually there is a fruitful tree that produces good fruit but I also have grown over a lifetime of persevering
sometimes I fell flat on my behind and failed God miserably other times I walked along in step other times I took a wrong path other times I just got lazy other times I worked hard and tried to run
what I know now is all the while God was trying and testing me and repairing me and healing me. So from the day I believed I was on a path there were many valleys and hills ahead many trials and struggles much to endure and many mistakes to make tomlewd me to where I am now in faith a lifetime in a world not ours but enduring in faith that first seed has grown into something better and more fruitful
the key to all of it was tbat Jesus was right there with me planting that seed and when I fell he picked me up and encouraged me , when I took a wrong path he rebuked and corrected my compass , when I got lazy he poked me with a prod , when I had no strength he picked me up and carried me , when I did good he blessed and praised me like a son , whe. I did wrong willingly he admonished me and I’ve felt his rod more than once
what I’ve found is I forgot everything but Jesus and his gospel and now he’s still right here with me still ready to help me correct me teach me embrace me lift me comfort me rebuke me
Its a lifetime and for me it has been a wild ride ups and downs and all around truly a broken road but it lead somewhere tonthe top of a mountain where I can see better things ahead even as I’m old I have more hope of a future than when I was but a lad filled with wonder towards this world
sits really about what Jesus has done for us , is doing in us , and where he’s leading us and whether we’re willing to follow where that leads
“Yes, it does matter whether God may give someone a repentant heart by how we present it, in meekness, as God may deem that act alone, or along with other kind acts believers have shown unbelievers, enough for them to have believed. “
yes brother kindness is defiantly good but to come to repentance we also have to accept our need for it sometimes we just have to speak the truth so for instance someone who really believes the Bible may need to hear this truth in order for them to realize how important repentance is
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
2 Corinthians 5:10 KJV
see this kind of thing ( that is repetitive in scriptire ) isn’t there to offend us or sound rude , but it’s an important part of the doctrine of the gospel that if we accept it as a believer it’s going to begin making us think that we need to pay attention to what we do and don’t do because we have to answer for it and will reap that which we sow in our earthly life
the truth needs to be heard along with everyone being nice and doing kind acts in his name
If we think we don’t have to answer for what we do and won’t reap what we sow , it’s extremely important to accept what the scripture declares about that. It isn’t always pleasant people see a Christian and realize they are easy to target because they don’t believe in retaliation easy to defame because they bless those who say bad things about them ect
a we’re not all there yet but it’s about persevering and pressing forward towards the goal and trusting jesus to be there with us and see it through
“It has taken me most of my life to have that kind of faith in him. And I still get attacked with that often. But the thing I can't get out of my heart, is that our Creator visited us, and people crucified him. Dear Jesus. If we would only view all sin that way, we would never do it.”
yes i agree completely I think the process is a life long one we are planted and we begin to sprout , then grow and produce a stock and leaves , and later buds begin to form and still later they mature and eventually there is a fruitful tree that produces good fruit but I also have grown over a lifetime of persevering
sometimes I fell flat on my behind and failed God miserably other times I walked along in step other times I took a wrong path other times I just got lazy other times I worked hard and tried to run
what I know now is all the while God was trying and testing me and repairing me and healing me. So from the day I believed I was on a path there were many valleys and hills ahead many trials and struggles much to endure and many mistakes to make tomlewd me to where I am now in faith a lifetime in a world not ours but enduring in faith that first seed has grown into something better and more fruitful
the key to all of it was tbat Jesus was right there with me planting that seed and when I fell he picked me up and encouraged me , when I took a wrong path he rebuked and corrected my compass , when I got lazy he poked me with a prod , when I had no strength he picked me up and carried me , when I did good he blessed and praised me like a son , whe. I did wrong willingly he admonished me and I’ve felt his rod more than once
what I’ve found is I forgot everything but Jesus and his gospel and now he’s still right here with me still ready to help me correct me teach me embrace me lift me comfort me rebuke me
Its a lifetime and for me it has been a wild ride ups and downs and all around truly a broken road but it lead somewhere tonthe top of a mountain where I can see better things ahead even as I’m old I have more hope of a future than when I was but a lad filled with wonder towards this world
sits really about what Jesus has done for us , is doing in us , and where he’s leading us and whether we’re willing to follow where that leads
“Yes, it does matter whether God may give someone a repentant heart by how we present it, in meekness, as God may deem that act alone, or along with other kind acts believers have shown unbelievers, enough for them to have believed. “
yes brother kindness is defiantly good but to come to repentance we also have to accept our need for it sometimes we just have to speak the truth so for instance someone who really believes the Bible may need to hear this truth in order for them to realize how important repentance is
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
2 Corinthians 5:10 KJV
see this kind of thing ( that is repetitive in scriptire ) isn’t there to offend us or sound rude , but it’s an important part of the doctrine of the gospel that if we accept it as a believer it’s going to begin making us think that we need to pay attention to what we do and don’t do because we have to answer for it and will reap that which we sow in our earthly life
the truth needs to be heard along with everyone being nice and doing kind acts in his name
If we think we don’t have to answer for what we do and won’t reap what we sow , it’s extremely important to accept what the scripture declares about that. It isn’t always pleasant people see a Christian and realize they are easy to target because they don’t believe in retaliation easy to defame because they bless those who say bad things about them ect
a we’re not all there yet but it’s about persevering and pressing forward towards the goal and trusting jesus to be there with us and see it through
You have your thinking all screwed up, by not understanding that salvation, saved, and save, according to Greek translation means; deliverance, delivered, and deliver.
We are delivered eternally, by God's sovereign grace. We are delivered, here in this present world, many times, as we repent of breaking God's spiritual commandments. The natural man will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, and thinks to be foolishness (1 Cor 2:14), only the born again spiritual man will repent.
No matter how you read the scriptures, mankind's works is not responsible for his eternal deliverance, and that is what you are promoting.
Luke 18:40-43 - The "saved" in verse 42, is not eternally delivered, but is a deliverance that the blind man received, in this present world, from his blindness.
The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, has a heart of stone that cannot be pricked by God to feel guilt about breaking spiritual laws, until God quickens him to the new spiritual life, by changing his heart of stone to a fleshy heart that can be pricked to feel guilty when breaking a spiritual law of God.
Acts 2:36-37 - (Peter preaching) Therefore let all the house of Israel (God's people) know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heart this, they were "pricked in their heart" (having been born again and given a fleshy heart) and said unto Peter and the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Peter, then told them to repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for (unto) the remission of sins, and ye shall receive "the gift" of the Holy Ghost, (which is the freedom from guilt).
To give you the contrast of the response from the heart of stone, of those that heard the same sermon from Stephen, they were "cut to the heart", and gnashed on him with their teeth, and stoned him to death (Acts 7:54).
That is a good documentary of a born again person, simulare to most of us. The thing that I am concerned about, is why can't you give God all praise and honor for birthing you spiritually, instead of giving yourself credit for accepting, believing, repenting, confessing, choosing, receiving, and other works that we do after we have been born spiritually?
I have the same issue regarding, called and chosen, as you do.
It is impossible to hear God calling you, to understand the reconciliation that Jesus provides. Then to end up, chasing wealth instead and not being chosen.
As quoted below.
Mat 20:16
So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen. G1588
Called but not chosen is a refutation of divine determination.
It is impossible to hear God calling you, to understand the reconciliation that Jesus provides. Then to end up, chasing wealth instead and not being chosen.
As quoted below.
Mat 20:16
So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen. G1588
Called but not chosen is a refutation of divine determination.
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“You have your thinking all screwed up, by not understanding that salvation”
Yeah I abandoned my thinking long ago and heard what the lord said about salvation
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
That’s the only person who understands salvation and we are meant to believe him. If that has messed up my thinking I’m pretty glad for it because I will never need to deny what the savior said will save me
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24
a that’s what we’re “ saved “ from and how we are saved by hearing and believing the everlasting Gospel and if we refuse it
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50 KJV
it’s not at all a mystery if we accept the gospel of the kingdom and don’t reject it we’re going to be saved . If we reject it and invent an alternate path we’re going to be judged along with the world
Yeah I abandoned my thinking long ago and heard what the lord said about salvation
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
That’s the only person who understands salvation and we are meant to believe him. If that has messed up my thinking I’m pretty glad for it because I will never need to deny what the savior said will save me
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24
a that’s what we’re “ saved “ from and how we are saved by hearing and believing the everlasting Gospel and if we refuse it
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50 KJV
it’s not at all a mystery if we accept the gospel of the kingdom and don’t reject it we’re going to be saved . If we reject it and invent an alternate path we’re going to be judged along with the world
Not trying to answer for cv5, but something for you to think about; Many are called as God's elect, (the wide gate), but few of God's elect are chosen to to be revealed the truths of Jesus doctrine, by the revelation of the Holy Spirit (the strait gate). that leads them to that abundant, and joyful life in this present world.
“why can't you give God all praise and honor for birthing you spiritually, instead of giving yourself credit for accepting, believing, repenting, confessing, choosing, receiving, and other works that we do after we have been born spiritually?”
uhhhhhhggghhhh
exhausting discussing the Bible with hypergracers.
uhhhhhhggghhhh
exhausting discussing the Bible with hypergracers.