Senate passes same-sex marriage bill with bipartisan support

[Roughsoul1991]

it wasn't a law, it was a ruling

It was unconstitutionally treated like the law of the land in case you forgot. As to why it was revisited.

 

[Dude653]

No it does not say that lol. That is like saying you must shut your brain off before making laws. In less, you want the none religious only making laws like the atheists. But even they have religious mantra they spout and believe.

Yes it does say that. Pretending otherwise doesn't make it true. Secular law protects everyone's rights because not everyone in America is Christian
This is that persecution complex I'm talking about. A lot of Christians in America think anything less than 100% compliance to their demands equates to them being persecuted

 

[Dude653]

To tell someone " you can't do something because of my religious beliefs " it's not only unconstitutional but it's not biblical either. Nowhere in the Bible does it say to force your beliefs on others through legislation or otherwise

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Actually Rome didn't decline or fall until after it converted to Christianity

Christianity wasn't the cause if that's what you are implying. There were many different reasons. One predominant reason was the expanse of the Empire, a Eastern and Western that had saw one shift of power to another which weakened the Empire and the attacks of the Germanic barbarians with the rising threat of Islamic Jihad in the south, southeast and southwest. But this is just among many reasons. Over the years, morals declined as the Empire progressed. Even under the pagan gods and goddesses the Roman Republic had a high moral ethics that they religiously and by discipline lived up to. All this would convert to Christianity with one God instead of polytheism, then like America decline into a culture almost absent of morals or a adherence to the religious teachings of generations past.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Yes it does say that. Pretending otherwise doesn't make it true. Secular law protects everyone's rights because not everyone in America is Christian
This is that persecution complex I'm talking about. A lot of Christians in America think anything less than 100% compliance to their demands equates to them being persecuted

I'm not pretending.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

So how does a heterosexual marriage law reinforce the establishment of religion? Where does it say you must worship Jesus?

Laws are legislated from morality. The debate is always over the morality of the left wing and right wing parties in a 2 party system. You have the morality of atheists, communists, libertarians, Republicans, Conservatives, liberals, Democrats, Etc.

There is no religious tests in our government to run for office because you can not separate conscience from mind.

But I agree Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. I do not see a Theocracy as God's will.

Beyond that, I will vote my morals that is best for the health, wealth, and security of the nation.

 

[gb9]

Yes it does say that. Pretending otherwise doesn't make it true. Secular law protects everyone's rights because not everyone in America is Christian
This is that persecution complex I'm talking about. A lot of Christians in America think anything less than 100% compliance to their demands equates to them being persecuted

i just have this weird, funky belief thar Christians should stand for Christian values. crazy, huh??

 

[ZNP]

Roe V Wade was reveresed by the Supreme Court for.....reasons no one can quite spell out

Actually they spelled out their reasons in great detail when they made this ruling.

Justice Samuel Alito said that the only legitimate unenumerated rights — that is, rights not explicitly stated in the Constitution — are those “deeply rooted in the Nation’s history and tradition” and “implicit in the concept of ordered liberty.” Abortion, the majority held, is not such a right.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/roe-v-wade-and-supreme-court-abortion-cases

This ruling does not make abortion illegal, it simply says that it is not in the constitution and therefore it is up to each state to decide.

What made no sense was the original Roe v Wade ruling that the right to be safe from warrantless searches meant that abortion was a constitutional right in all 50 states. The US government and the state governments regulate the health care industry but for some strange reason they can't regulate abortion?

All 50 states can regulate hunting and shooting of animals but they aren't allowed to regulate the killing of babies?

 

[Scarecrow]

I'll try to address some of what you said, but I simply do not have the time you seem to have.

Equating homosexuality with race is absurd. Even if the behavior was biologically motivated -- a debatable contention -- it is still something someone does. Actions have far greater consequences than skin color. I made my point about this and you did not get it. Too bad, I'm moving on.

Sexual orientation is not a behavior or an action. your own orientation requires no action for you to be heterosexual. You didn't have to have any sort of sex or engage in any emotional bonding or romantic behaviors to be heterosexual.

All, and i do mean all of it All of the evidence says that orientation is an inborn and immutable trait, just like race or right/left handedness or eye color or blood type.

You say you believe that people have a right to their beliefs, but you do not. If I believe that my preparing a wedding cake for a homosexual couple aids and abets something my God disdains, you believe the State should force me to violate those beliefs. That is not merely discrimination. That's fascism, the god-state.

and if a baker believes that people of color are condemned by God to be the social and moral inferiors to whites does that give that baker the right to put out a "white's only" sign on his store?

If you are going to go into business providing the public with goods and services then you get to do that for all people, even the ones you don't happen to like. If you can't set aside your prejudices and treat everyone who comes into your business with the same courtesy and respect then you shouldn't be in business.

These various Christian service-providers did not tell the homosexuals to leave their businesses. They refused to help in a specific ceremony.

you mean they refused to provide the same service they were happily providing to everyone else.

Why should they be forced to participate in something that violates their beliefs? Oh, because you believe they're wrong to do so. Why do my beliefs have to be subjected to yours?

why should you have the special right to discriminate?

Who have you ruined? By supporting policies and politicians who believe that an American's religious beliefs are to be violated by those of a different opinion, you help to persecute others.

and the constitution says that everyone is equal in the eyes of the law and no one gets to discriminate against a minority period.

As for believing everyone is equal, you do not. Some, for you, get to step on the beliefs of others. That is not equality or tolerance. Quite the opposite.

you are free to believe what you wish and dislike anyone you choose but discrimination is something someone does, not who they are or even what they believe. Discrimination is an action and actions have consequences.

I do discriminate against behavior I believe is morally objectionable. I will not support it. If you think it's morally acceptable, then you bake them a cake or design their website. I'm not going to try to ruin your business with lawsuits if you do. And, if you want to boycott me, go for it. That's freedom.

you discriminate against people, your justifications for choosing to discriminate don't change discrimination into something good its still discrimination.

 

[Scarecrow]

(then a trial is held to determine if said discrimination took place and just what laws were broken in engaging in that discrimination. For example in Brown v the Board of education the courts found that when the Topika Board of Education segregated students they were engaging in discrimination and violating the constitution.)

So for your religious beliefs on marriage you are willing to be dragged into court everytime someone screams discrimination? Do you now how expensive this is? [/quote] the solution to that is simple. Don't discriminate

(and they don't have to do either. Churches are not businesses, they do not provide services to the public. A priest/minister is acting as a private citizen when he or she agrees to perform a wedding ceremony and as such they can chose who they do that for. This is why one can still hear about ministers refusing to marry an interracial couple and they are perfectly in their right to do so.)

No but they get government protections and nonprofit tax exemptions. It has and will be abused.

yes, quite a few churches abuse government protections and tax exemption.

but that doesn't change the fact that no priest or minister can ever be forced to engage in a ceremony he or she doesn't want to.

(So you are not being persecuted.)

I never said that. My persecution just doesn't compare with being dragged into court, imprisoned, beaten, or killed.

so again, just how are you personally being persecuted?

(Who exactly was persecuted under the Obama administration?)

To start, https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/01/obama-administration-has-troubled-religious-liberty-legacy/

These decisions led to many Christians being dragged to court like the Baker, Florist, and the woman who refused to marry a gay couple.

No those were state laws that forbid discrimination. If that baker had turned away a black couple the consequences woudl have been exactly the same

Also we shall not forget the harassment allowed in the military to Christians much like under Biden with the Vaccine mandate.

the military requires vaccinations for anthrax, diphtheria, measles, tetanus and polio as well. Do these constitute harassment?

Under Obama Iraqi and Syrian Christian refugees seeking asylum were harrassed or immediately deported while 1000s of Islamic Muslims were allowed from the same region.

Citation?

The Green family that owns Hobby Lobby, an arts and crafts chain, and the Hahns who own Conestoga, a cabinet making company, who had challenged the so called contraceptive mandate saying it forced them to either violate their faith or pay ruinous fines. Obamacare law that requires virtually all health care plans to cover, without co-pay, sterilizations, contraceptives, and abortion-inducing drugs.

Should an employer who is a Jehovah's Witness be allowed to dictate that their employees cannot receive blood transfusions?

(he was a business owner who provided a service to the public for a fee. His business was a public accommodation not private. When you open a business you are subject to the laws of the state and country and you get to serve everyone equally. The Constitution is very clear on the matter that everyone is equal in the eyes of the law even people said business owner chooses to not like. This is why we live in an age where you wont' see business posting signs saying they will only serve white people.)

Masterpiece Cakeshop Ltd. v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission, violated his First Amendment rights to free exercise of religion since the regulations were not applied neutrally.

Here is the court's decision, you should read it

 

[Cameron143]

it is unlikely they would have supported emancipation, the end of slavery, racial equality, women's suffrage, direct elections, integrated schools, and a host of other things. They would recognize that times change and with that understanding they included provisions in the Constitution to recognize that fact and provisions to change the constitution.

Christians are the ones who lead the charge for all those things. Some even devoted their whole lives to such causes. It's a shame you don't actually want to have an exchange of ideas and just hurl insult and innuendo. You could profit much if you would do so.
Has someone calling themselves Christian harmed you in the past?

 

[Scarecrow]

Christians are the ones who lead the charge for all those things. Some even devoted their whole lives to such causes.

and who codified them into the laws of the country in the first place?

 

[Dude653]

I'm not pretending.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

So how does a heterosexual marriage law reinforce the establishment of religion? Where does it say you must worship Jesus?

Laws are legislated from morality. The debate is always over the morality of the left wing and right wing parties in a 2 party system. You have the morality of atheists, communists, libertarians, Republicans, Conservatives, liberals, Democrats, Etc.

There is no religious tests in our government to run for office because you can not separate conscience from mind.

But I agree Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. I do not see a Theocracy as God's will.

Beyond that, I will vote my morals that is best for the health, wealth, and security of the nation.

No reason to not allow same-sex marriage other than religious reasons and it literally says they can't pass laws that favor anyone religion because all laws have to have a secular purpose

 

[Dude653]

The Rome thing... They just tried to spread themselves too thin.
People who try to take over the world tend to fail

 

[arthurfleminger]

Passage of the marriage act is a slap in the face to God and Jesus' definition of marriage.

Don't look to the government for your moral guidance. Keep in mind that the government, and it's laws, supported slavery/segregation, no voting rights for women, abortion for many years.

The goverrnment grouses/grubs for their power/votes and generally comes up with the 'wind blowingflavor of the day', not to be mistaken for being morally right, only politically correct.

 

[Cameron143]

and who codified them into the laws of the country in the first place?

Is this an admission that godly values are codified by godly men led by a sovereign and loving Creator who see dignity in all life created a governing system that allows all to participate and bring change to the betterment of all?
Your problem isn't with Christians. They seek your highest good. Your grievance is with the ungodly and ultimately with God Himself. You don't wish to follow Him.

Again I ask, have you been hurt in the past by someone who claimed to be a Christian?

It dawned on me just now...if Christians are to blame, our failure has been that we ourselves have been guilty of not praying enough and more stringently adhering to God's ways.
I am going to make a point to pray for you each day.

 

[Dude653]

Is this an admission that godly values are codified by godly men led by a sovereign and loving Creator who see dignity in all life created a governing system that allows all to participate and bring change to the betterment of all?
Your problem isn't with Christians. They seek your highest good. Your grievance is with the ungodly and ultimately with God Himself. You don't wish to follow Him.

Again I ask, have you been hurt in the past by someone who claimed to be a Christian?

It dawned on me just now...if Christians are to blame, our failure has been that we ourselves have been guilty of not praying enough and more stringently adhering to God's ways.
I am going to make a point to pray for you each day.

You don't have a right to force your "Godly values" on other people.
Imagine trying to tell someone that he doesn't have the right to not follow your religion. Pretentious much?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

(then a trial is held to determine if said discrimination took place and just what laws were broken in engaging in that discrimination. For example in Brown v the Board of education the courts found that when the Topika Board of Education segregated students they were engaging in discrimination and violating the constitution.)

So for your religious beliefs on marriage you are willing to be dragged into court everytime someone screams discrimination? Do you now how expensive this is?

the solution to that is simple. Don't discriminate

yes, quite a few churches abuse government protections and tax exemption.

but that doesn't change the fact that no priest or minister can ever be forced to engage in a ceremony he or she doesn't want to.

so again, just how are you personally being persecuted?

No those were state laws that forbid discrimination. If that baker had turned away a black couple the consequences woudl have been exactly the same


the military requires vaccinations for anthrax, diphtheria, measles, tetanus and polio as well. Do these constitute harassment?


Citation?

Should an employer who is a Jehovah's Witness be allowed to dictate that their employees cannot receive blood transfusions?


Here is the court's decision, you should read it[/QUOTE]

(the solution to that is simple. Don't discriminate)

By your beliefs as a Christian on heterosexual marriage you could be labeled under a hate group which the government has already under Biden given mandatory training for identifying hate groups which in the training it listed radical pro life or anti- LGBT groups. https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/us-army-defines-christian-ministry-as-domestic-hate-group

You act as if your immune but really just blind being led to the wolf.


(yes, quite a few churches abuse government protections and tax exemption. )

This doesn't imply all religious organizations should be persicuted for their heterosexual marriage beliefs.

(but that doesn't change the fact that no priest or minister can ever be forced to engage in a ceremony he or she doesn't want to. )

Your apathy will lead to this.

( so again, just how are you personally being persecuted?)

My taxes, my kids, and my grandkids will be affected by this nonsense. Probably more of us average citizens as well in this generation.

So persecution in China isn't worthy to speak on if it isn't happening to you?

(No those were state laws that forbid discrimination. If that baker had turned away a black couple the consequences woudl have been exactly the same)

It made national attention which influences others decisions and the court ruling would have affected more people than just the state.


(the military requires vaccinations for anthrax, diphtheria, measles, tetanus and polio as well. Do these constitute harassment?)

What constitutes harassment is most religious exemptions were denied without even looking at each exemption. Which is why under investigation the branches have lost the battle but unfortunately many Christians were forced out the military. Also, Covid is not a threat to our young soldiers like anthrax, diphtheria, measles, tetanus and polio.


(Citation?)

One of many sources.

https://pilgrimsbeacon.com/why-is-obama-deporting-christian-refugees-seeking-asylum/

( Should an employer who is a Jehovah's Witness be allowed to dictate that their employees cannot receive blood transfusions?)

Are you saying this is the same as being forced to pay for contraceptive, abortions, etc?


( Here is the court's decision, you should read it)

Thanks, what of it?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

You don't have a right to force your "Godly values" on other people.
Imagine trying to tell someone that he doesn't have the right to not follow your religion. Pretentious much?

He has every right just as Obama, Biden, Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar do. There is no religious test to run for office or vote.

 

[Dude653]

the solution to that is simple. Don't discriminate

yes, quite a few churches abuse government protections and tax exemption.

but that doesn't change the fact that no priest or minister can ever be forced to engage in a ceremony he or she doesn't want to.

so again, just how are you personally being persecuted?

No those were state laws that forbid discrimination. If that baker had turned away a black couple the consequences woudl have been exactly the same


the military requires vaccinations for anthrax, diphtheria, measles, tetanus and polio as well. Do these constitute harassment?


Citation?

Should an employer who is a Jehovah's Witness be allowed to dictate that their employees cannot receive blood transfusions?


Here is the court's decision, you should read it

(the solution to that is simple. Don't discriminate)

By your beliefs as a Christian on heterosexual marriage you could be labeled under a hate group which the government has already under Biden given mandatory training for identifying hate groups which in the training it listed radical pro life or anti- LGBT groups. https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/us-army-defines-christian-ministry-as-domestic-hate-group

You act as if your immune but really just blind being led to the wolf.


(yes, quite a few churches abuse government protections and tax exemption. )

This doesn't imply all religious organizations should be persicuted for their heterosexual marriage beliefs.

(but that doesn't change the fact that no priest or minister can ever be forced to engage in a ceremony he or she doesn't want to. )

Your apathy will lead to this.

( so again, just how are you personally being persecuted?)

My taxes, my kids, and my grandkids will be affected by this nonsense. Probably more of us average citizens as well in this generation.

So persecution in China isn't worthy to speak on if it isn't happening to you?

(No those were state laws that forbid discrimination. If that baker had turned away a black couple the consequences woudl have been exactly the same)

It made national attention which influences others decisions and the court ruling would have affected more people than just the state.


(the military requires vaccinations for anthrax, diphtheria, measles, tetanus and polio as well. Do these constitute harassment?)

What constitutes harassment is most religious exemptions were denied without even looking at each exemption. Which is why under investigation the branches have lost the battle but unfortunately many Christians were forced out the military. Also, Covid is not a threat to our young soldiers like anthrax, diphtheria, measles, tetanus and polio.


(Citation?)

One of many sources.

https://pilgrimsbeacon.com/why-is-obama-deporting-christian-refugees-seeking-asylum/

( Should an employer who is a Jehovah's Witness be allowed to dictate that their employees cannot receive blood transfusions?)

Are you saying this is the same as being forced to pay for contraceptive, abortions, etc?


( Here is the court's decision, you should read it)

Thanks, what of it?[/QUOTE]
Yeah that's the point I was making earlier. They think anything less than 100% compliance to their demands equates to them being persecuted
"Oh no I'm so persecuted over two people making a life decision that has zero effect on me"

 

[Roughsoul1991]

No reason to not allow same-sex marriage other than religious reasons and it literally says they can't pass laws that favor anyone religion because all laws have to have a secular purpose

No reason? Sociological factors, birth/death rates, disease, cost of medical insurance and taxes, the social construct of the family being absent of one biological father or mother. These are real issues for a nation to consider.