Struggling reading through romans 8 & 9 and Calvinism.

[ForestGreenCook]

1 Cor 2:14 does not say “unregenerate person.” It says psuchikos, which means “soulish,” or “of the soul.” IE: a natural person, a person influenced by the world. There are Christians who live their lives that way… Any person, Christian or not, can change their thinking and become concerned about things of the spirit.


That’s not what the text says. It says “ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.” Or “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” After we heard and decided to believe the Gospel, we were sealed with the Holy Spirit himself.

Have it your way, but your way does not harmonize with Eph 2:1-5.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Don’t minimize what God wants us to do. He wants us to come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4).

Saved, according to Greek translation, means "delivered". The born again child of God is delivered from his ignorance, when he comes unto the knowledge of the truth. This scripture is not referencing eternal deliverance.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The natural man and the unregenerate man, are one in the same. The natural man has not been quickened by God to a new Spiritual man. Even though the Spiritual man has been born again, he still carries the baggage of his fleshly nature with him, and yields to the temptations of his fleshly nature quite often.

This is impossible

The spiritual man can not be made until the forgiveness of the wage of sin is applied to the natural man. Until then, the natural man still carries his own wage of sin, which is death.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Saved, according to Greek translation, means "delivered". The born again child of God is delivered from his ignorance, when he comes unto the knowledge of the truth. This scripture is not referencing eternal deliverance.

No

he is delivered from the wage of sin.

the wage of sin is death,. The GIFT of God is life. Through Jesus

we recieve this gift through faith in the work of god and his promise.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

In Rom.8, Paul is saying God forenew believers.

What verse in Romans 8 says that he foreknew believers? God does foreknow all things, and one of the things that he foreknew, was that no one would seek him. They are altogether become filthy, there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (Psalms 53:3).

Romans 9 is the same.

 

[Cameron143]

What verse in Romans 8 says that he foreknew believers? God does foreknow all things, and one of the things that he foreknew, was that no one would seek him. They are altogether become filthy, there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (Psalms 53:3).

Romans 9 is the same.

Romans 8:29

 

[VARob]

The natural man and the unregenerate man, are one in the same. The natural man has not been quickened by God to a new Spiritual man. Even though the Spiritual man has been born again, he still carries the baggage of his fleshly nature with him, and yields to the temptations of his fleshly nature quite often.

That's false.

 

[VARob]

Have it your way,

"My" way is what the text actually says.

but your way does not harmonize with Eph 2:1-5.

Yes, it does. God quickened us when we chose to believe the gospel.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Our God and Savior is Jesus Christ who even though He obeys the Father to perfection and has divine love for the Father, He also has divine love for all mankind. Jesus explains that all the things that He says and does is the Father's will, not His. CHrist died for all mankind which makes all of mankind eligible for salvation, but it is the Father who chooses who will be placed in the spiritual body of Christ. He does not save everybody because He wants to show His wrath and consequences for disobedience to those beings that are in the spiritual realm.
In 2 Peter 3: 9 Peter is talking about US, those that are predestined to salvation ( past, present, and future). He is slack in returning to judge the world until all those predestined in the future come to repentance and get saved.

John 6:39, tells us who Jesus died for, and it was not for the whole world of mankind, it was only for those that his Father gave to him.

John 10:26-28 - But ye believe not because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you, my sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

2 Pet 39 - Peter is speaking to them that have obtained like precious faith (2 Pet 1:1). Peter even includes himself in his warning by using the word "usward". Peter is reminding them that when they commit a sin that they will perish=death=separate themselves from their fellowship with God, until they repent. This scripture does not refer to eternal salvation.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

That's false.

Can you back your statement up with scripture?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes, it does. God quickened us when we chose to believe the gospel.

All of mankind, when they are born into this world by natural birth, are born with the sinful nature of Adam, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others (Eph 2:3). We stay in this condition (1 Cor 2:14), until God quickens us, while we were dead (without the ability to respond to Spiritual things) spiritually, (Eph 2:1), putting within us the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Try starting from Romans chapter 1, and not at 8 (or 9) and read/meditate on it with MUCH prayer!

Throw Mr Calvin in the bin!

You need to take your own advise, about read/meditate on Rom 1. These people that Paul had reference to were born again children, that had backslid, and turned away from God. They had the truth once, because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath shown it unto them, but they are now holding it in unrighteousness (Verse 18-19)

If all of us cannot see our sinful, fleshly, nature in Romans 1, then maybe we are not as humble as we ought to be.

 

[soberxp]

John 6:39, tells us who Jesus died for, and it was not for the whole world of mankind, it was only for those that his Father gave to him.

.

John 17

1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Its kind of funny how they denounce puffing yourself up thinking you saved yourself because you trusted in someone else to save you. Yet they puff themselves up as someone special. Who was not chosen as a member to prove Gods wrath, and specially selected to be chosen to prove his love..

Gods answer to evil is love, kindness, longsuffering. The result of evil as Jesus said is that as it spe=reads. Love will grow cold.

how can we tell the world that evil is not the answer. But love is, if we tell the world God hated them if they are not his elect?

How can we on the other hand show Gods love to the world. If we believe Gods love is selective and only given to a select group of people? We can’t

the nativity was given to the world.. not the elect. It showed Gods love, not to the elect, but to the world.. knowing many would reject him, he showed he loved them anyway..

that is what will cut people to the heart. When the God they hated showed them he loved them and offered a way to them, but they rejected his love.

Are these the scriptures you are trying to convey about the rest of the world that God loves? Or does he?





Does Jesus love the world, that he will not pray for? (John 17:9)

Does Jesus love the world, that hates those that he gives his word to? (John 17:14)

Does Jesus love the world, that cannot (imposable) receive the Spirit of truth (John 14:17)

Does Jesus love the world, that hates him and his children? (John 15:18-19)

Rightly divide the two different worlds: There is a world that God loves, and there is a world that God hates.

Heb 12:6-8 - For whom the Lord loveth, he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons, for what son is he whom the Father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, wherefore all (his sons) are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Psalms 73:5 - They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they "plagued" (divinely punished) like other men. (this is the world of bastards and not sons).

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You need to take your own advise, about read/meditate on Rom 1. These people that Paul had reference to were born again children, that had backslid, and turned away from God. They had the truth once, because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath shown it unto them, but they are now holding it in unrighteousness (Verse 18-19)

If all of us cannot see our sinful, fleshly, nature in Romans 1, then maybe we are not as humble as we ought to be.

this just shows this person does not have the truth.. it also makes me believe he just likes to argue. Nt calvinist believes thsee people were once saved then lost their salvation.

 

[KelbyofGod]

One more verse I should have included in regards to the destructiveness of "evil communications" / "false doctrines" (generally), and the destructiveness of Calvinist doctrine (specifically) is the emboldened verse in the middle of this passage:

2 Timothy 2:16-19 KJV

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. [17] And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; [18] Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. [19] Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.​

By falsely claiming that the resurrection (the perfecting of those who need to be perfected) is already past, they were actually telling everyone alive that they have ZERO hope of being resurrected because they've missed it and cannot change what's already been done.

Calvinism is just the modern manifestation of THAT false doctrine (with a little twist to avoid detection). Calvinism claims that the resurrection is indeed in the future but the unchangeable decision is in the past. And that new version (if believed or pondered) still leads to the same discouraging conclusions that corrupt good manners.

1 Corinthians 15:19 KJV

"If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable." (which is what Calvinism claims of most men)​

​

And...​

​

1 Corinthians 15:32 (last part)
"... let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die."

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[ForestGreenCook]

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Who are the "they" that might know the only true God and Jesus Christ?

"They" are "those that God gave him". Jesus calls "them" sheep in John 10:26-29, But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you, my sheep hear my voice, and "they" follow me, and I give unto "them" eternal life, and "they" shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck "them" out of my Father's hand. My Father, which gave "them" me.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

this just shows this person does not have the truth.. it also makes me believe he just likes to argue. Nt calvinist believes thsee people were once saved then lost their salvation.

Sorry, my 87 year old mind must not have calculated your information rightly, assuming that you, also, think this scripture to teach that they were born again children of God that had backslid, and lost their fellowship with God, but did not lose their eternal inheritance.

 

[VARob]

Can you back your statement up with scripture?

Already have. You don't listen. You're trapped in Calvinism.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

This is impossible

The spiritual man can not be made until the forgiveness of the wage of sin is applied to the natural man. Until then, the natural man still carries his own wage of sin, which is death.

Forgiveness of the wage of sin was applied on the cross to all of those that his Father gave to him. This forgiveness was completed on the cross and they do not have to accept whether is was done or not. The simple fact is THAT IT WAS DONE. and that cannot be changed.