Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Everlasting-Grace]

IF OSAS is true - that once you receive the Holy Spirit, you can never lose Him - then in fact John the Baptist didn't need to do anything to be saved - according to OSAS. According to the other perspective, children need to consciously believe in Jesus Christ when they come of age. Those who believe in infant baptism, as I do, believe babies receive the Holy Spirit when they are baptized, as children, by the faith of their parents, just like the faith of their parents was accepted for circumcision. However, when children come of age, they have to accept Jesus as their personal Savior, and if they refuse to, they lose the Holy Spirit.

the seal and indwelling of the HS did not occure until after pentecost. so you would be in error. Even saul (first king of Israel) was given the HS the seal of the spirit was not gauranteed in the OT. nor did everyone even receive him

OSAS is true, because today, we are given the HS as a pledge UNTIL the day of redemption.

He is the gaurantee of our salvation not ourselves.. we on our best day deserve condemnation..

that is something that people who reject eternal security overlook. You can never earn your salvation.. if you can never earn it, you can never unearn it..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Acts 2:38 "Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

The Gift or Promise of the Holy Spirit through Baptism is for adults and children alike. If no one could ever lose the Holy Spirit after receiving Him -if that were really true - then all the baptized would be saved.

they did not recieve BECAUSE they were baptized. they received because they repented.

They were commanded to be baptized BECAUSE they recieved remission of sin.

it is so sad that Acts 2: 38 is so misrepresented..

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Disagree. That's not what the verse says. It says, Baptism is for the forgiveness or remission of sins.

This is confirmed in Acts 22:16: "Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name."

This is called Baptismal Regeneration and was the belief of the Early Church. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptismal_regeneration

Excerpt: "Baptismal regeneration is the name given to doctrines held by the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Lutheran, Anglican churches, and other Protestant denominations which maintain that salvation is intimately linked to the act of baptism, without necessarily holding that salvation is impossible apart from it ...

The term is associated by some with John 3:1-21, where Jesus tells Nicodemus, a Pharisee and member of the Jewish ruling council, that "unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God ... unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God".[John 3:3-8]" Born of Water is Baptism. Born of the Spirit is the inward change and infilling of the Holy Spirit that happens in Baptism. Hence, Peter said in Acts 2:38 they will receive the Holy Spirit when Baptized.

 

[ResidentAlien]

the seal and indwelling of the HS did not occure until after pentecost. so you would be in error. Even saul (first king of Israel) was given the HS the seal of the spirit was not gauranteed in the OT. nor did everyone even receive him

OSAS is true, because today, we are given the HS as a pledge UNTIL the day of redemption.

He is the gaurantee of our salvation not ourselves.. we on our best day deserve condemnation..

that is something that people who reject eternal security overlook. You can never earn your salvation.. if you can never earn it, you can never unearn it..

I'm curious, what's your take on this passage:

"Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called 'Today,' lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, while it is said:

'Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.' " Hebrews 3:12-15​

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I'm curious, what's your take on this passage:

"Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called 'Today,' lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, while it is said:

'Today, if you will hear His voice,​

Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.' " Hebrews 3:12-15​

in the rebellion. did those people really believe? or did they show a pattern of continued unbelief?

 

[ResidentAlien]

in the rebellion. did those people really believe? or did they show a pattern of continued unbelief?

Thank you. That tells me what I wanted to know.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Thank you. That tells me what I wanted to know.

thank you

once again you show you do not actually want to get into the word and study what is actually happening.

people stop believing because they only had belief, not true saving faith (assurance and confidence)

that's why they fall away.. because they were never given the spirit. they were never saved to begin with.

 

[ResidentAlien]

people stop believing because they only had belief, not true saving faith (assurance and confidence)

that's why they fall away.. because they were never given the spirit. they were never saved to begin with.

Still sticking with that I see. How do you know they were never saved? Because they fell away?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Still sticking with that I see. How do you know they were never saved? Because they fell away?

how do I know?

because they continued to show a heart of unbelief..

why would you think a people who never showed they trusted in God but complained, yelled screamed attacked the messenger of God was ever saved?

that boggles my mind

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Disagree. That's not what the verse says. It says, Baptism is for the forgiveness or remission of sins.

This is confirmed in Acts 22:16: "Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name."

This is called Baptismal Regeneration and was the belief of the Early Church. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptismal_regeneration

Excerpt: "Baptismal regeneration is the name given to doctrines held by the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Lutheran, Anglican churches, and other Protestant denominations which maintain that salvation is intimately linked to the act of baptism, without necessarily holding that salvation is impossible apart from it ...

The term is associated by some with John 3:1-21, where Jesus tells Nicodemus, a Pharisee and member of the Jewish ruling council, that "unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God ... unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God".[John 3:3-8]" Born of Water is Baptism. Born of the Spirit is the inward change and infilling of the Holy Spirit that happens in Baptism. Hence, Peter said in Acts 2:38 they will receive the Holy Spirit when Baptized.

Your right, it says baptized for

for does not always mean on order to recieve, it can also be translated on account of. in english or greek (eis) the same is true

If you are trying to earn salvation by baptism in water. your no different than a jew adding circumcision (the OT symbol of cleansing) to the gospel.

 

[Runningman]

In Adam ALL DIE

I guess you are not part of all?? what part are you then? are you an angelic being?

Did john the baptist not have to believe after he was born? what if he rejected God would he have been saved?

So there isn’t any verse or passage explaining about being “born” in Adam? Then I don’t believe it nor do I include that idea in Bible interpretation. It’s as simple as that.

John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit before he was born. According to OSAS, he should have been born saved.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

So there isn’t any verse or passage explaining about being “born” in Adam? Then I don’t believe it nor do I include that idea in Bible interpretation. It’s as simple as that.

John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit before he was born. According to OSAS, he should have been born saved.

whatever my friend. I give up. I will pray for you.. There seems to be no getting through..

 

[ResidentAlien]

So there isn’t any verse or passage explaining about being “born” in Adam? Then I don’t believe it nor do I include that idea in Bible interpretation. It’s as simple as that.

Death spread to the whole human race through Adam:

"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—(For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)" Romans 5:12-17

 

[HeIsHere]

why are you looking at chapter 2 for context?

1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad:
Greetings.

he did not say to the saved

also he speaks of hearers not doers. and says that those of them who claimed to have faith but had no works had no faith at all. meaning they are not saved.

There are no chapters, James did not write in chapters.

The persecuted Jewish believers who were part of the various tribes were scattered. This is well established as historical fact.

Why would he be writing to non believers, makes no sense. As well he doesn't even explain the Gospel to them so that makes no sense other.

There is no true faith in scripture there is just faith.

Since you are of that mindset that faith must prove works you have already been indoctrinated into that reformed theology so I know we have no common ground.

Works cannot prove salvation.

 

[Runningman]

Death spread to the whole human race through Adam:

"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—(For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)" Romans 5:12-17

The logical conclusion of that passage is that if all were born in Adam and, therefore, born under condemnation, then because of Jesus Christ all are born justified.

That’s why I don’t interpret it to mean that all people are born justified by Christ anymore all people are born under condemnation.

See what I mean?

 

[Runningman]

whatever my friend. I give up. I will pray for you.. There seems to be no getting through..

You can get through with Bible verses… if you can’t find what the Bible purportedly says, according to you, then I highly recommend you say a prayer for yourself as well. Go in peace my friend and I’m here if you ever want to discuss further.

 

[ResidentAlien]

The logical conclusion of that passage is that if all were born in Adam and, therefore, born under condemnation, then because of Jesus Christ all are born justified.

That’s why I don’t interpret it to mean that all people are born justified by Christ anymore all people are born under condemnation.

See what I mean?

If you see it then it's all good.

 

[posthuman]

No you’re the one who is way off base on this.

Jesus knew Judas personally, intimately, and completely in a shepherd to sheep relationship. As a result, Jesus one time said to Judas he would have eternal life.

That means Judas was either once saved always saved as you seem to believe or he lost his salvation. You’re not mature in the Word enough to accept that yet, but that’s okay! It’s all about growth and improvement. I study every day. I hope you will join me in study with an open mind and heart.

friend, why, in the book of Job, does God allow Satan into the fellowship sanctity of His throne room, openly slandering and seeking to murder His servants?

Judas is the antichrist, the Son of Perdition - the only person in all scripture to bear this name, and Christ is not and never was unaware of this. yet He chose Him, to keep him near, in order to deliver Him to death - giving Judas every honor, the first sop of bread, the trust with the moneybox, every constant mercy.

why does omniscient God extend hospitality and mercy to those who hate Him?
why is our Lord longsuffering?

 

[BreatheFocusBet]

Did Paul think he was talking to Galatians who had faith in Christ Jesus and had the Holy Spirit?


Galatians 3:26
You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:6-7
And because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, you are also an heir through God.

Galatians 3:1-2
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?
Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh? Have you suffered so much for nothing, if it really was for nothing? Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice the law, or because you hear and believe?



Did Paul warn those same Galatians that Christ could become of no value at all to them?

Galatians 5:1-4
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery.

Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.



And who did Paul warn that those who practiced the sins in Galatians 5:19-21 would not inherit the Kingdom of God?

Galatians 5:19-21
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[wattie]

Did Paul think he was talking to Galatians who had faith in Christ Jesus and had the Holy Spirit?


Galatians 3:26
You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:6-7
And because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, you are also an heir through God.

Galatians 3:1-2
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?
Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh? Have you suffered so much for nothing, if it really was for nothing? Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice the law, or because you hear and believe?



Did Paul warn those same Galatians that Christ could become of no value at all to them?

Galatians 5:1-4
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery.

Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.



And who did Paul warn that those who practiced the sins in Galatians 5:19-21 would not inherit the Kingdom of God?

Galatians 5:19-21
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Inheritance is different to entrance.

Entrance to the Kingdom is at initial belief in Jesus Christ as God.. John 3:16.. Romans 10:9-10

Inheritance.. is rewards for the faithful. Their works are refined in the fire and producing gold. Bad works.. they remain saved.. but works burned up.