Struggling reading through romans 8 & 9 and Calvinism.
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That is a complicated topic that can't be addressed by that verse alone. Esau gave up his right to the OT promises by his own choice of actions.
The fact that he could have inherited the promises had he chose differently is the real takeaway. The promises are not garaunteed by flesh, the path walked in life determines the eligibilty to the promises. There is a spiritual component to inheriting the promises.
Whether he was saved or not at a later point is completely at God's mercy. It isn't made clear by this passage alone.
The fact that he could have inherited the promises had he chose differently is the real takeaway. The promises are not garaunteed by flesh, the path walked in life determines the eligibilty to the promises. There is a spiritual component to inheriting the promises.
Whether he was saved or not at a later point is completely at God's mercy. It isn't made clear by this passage alone.
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True. The "Repent and be baptized" stuff was just the first (not the only) thing. The other stuff comes after.
It seems strange to me that people think that they can skip the first step entirely (like skipping the planting phase) and yet expect to receive a full harvest.
I'm pretty sure some will interpret that statement as judgemental but actually it's a hope that they/we might be humble enough to reconsider the wisdom of our actions.
How can we plant a different seed and yet expect the fruit of the original command?
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
It seems strange to me that people think that they can skip the first step entirely (like skipping the planting phase) and yet expect to receive a full harvest.
I'm pretty sure some will interpret that statement as judgemental but actually it's a hope that they/we might be humble enough to reconsider the wisdom of our actions.
How can we plant a different seed and yet expect the fruit of the original command?
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
This choice by God was made before either child had been born, not based upon whether either had done any good or evil, to show that he elects whom he will, not influenced by their works.
Most on this forum thinks God makes his choice on whom he will deliver eternally, by their believing, accepting, confessing, being baptised, repenting, etc. which is far from the truth of the scriptures.
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Revelation 7:9
“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;”
Some of these are Jews who became Christians during the Church age, but earlier in this chapter, we see another group who are exclusively Jewish and are called out by tribes:
Revelation 7:4
“And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”
“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;”
Some of these are Jews who became Christians during the Church age, but earlier in this chapter, we see another group who are exclusively Jewish and are called out by tribes:
Revelation 7:4
“And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”
Some would even say the number is symbolic. 12 x 12 is 144. These numbers representing the entirety of the redeemed in both the old and new testament times. The thousand number just representing a vast number and possibly just enumerating in another way the number that no man can number found elsewhere. 12 of course representing the fulness or entirety as represented by the 12 tribes and the 12 Apostles.
Agreed that the word is not, but the concept is.
Colossians 1:18
“And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”
Colossians 1:17
“And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”
Fortunately for us, He is also good and gracious and has given all men the opportunity to come to the cross and choose to be cleansed by His blood.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
Colossians 1:18
“And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”
Colossians 1:17
“And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”
Fortunately for us, He is also good and gracious and has given all men the opportunity to come to the cross and choose to be cleansed by His blood.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
Please read Revelation 7 and you will see that it is not symbolic. They are broken down by tribes and differentiated from the Church.
Within this chapter you will see that the writer even details the exact number from each tribe. Note the transition that begins verse 9: "After this I beheld..." We see two distinct groups in Heaven before Jesus returns at the Second Coming.
Within this chapter you will see that the writer even details the exact number from each tribe. Note the transition that begins verse 9: "After this I beheld..." We see two distinct groups in Heaven before Jesus returns at the Second Coming.
