getting out of tribulation....

[Lanolin]

I kinda think those who adhere to pre-tribulation are like those who play monopoly and covet those 'get out of jail free' cards

I dont know. I know scripture does say 'after tribulation' rather than before. But of course lots of people prefer that they never face any tribulation of any kind. My question is if they dont, how do they know their faith is real? If its never actually tested...?

Whether it be Great Tribulation or just personal tribulation. For who can say any Christian leads a charmed life in this world?

Its just a strange thing to think that for seven years according to some popular teaching the church will disappear. Just how is never explained. Oh we just not going to be here. Ok....and just where will the believers go. I thought they would be prohesying or witnessing but apparently for those who believe we will be raptured there is just nothing for us to do.

Instead a logical reading of Matthew 26 is that after tribulation Jesus will appear. Right up until the end we can preach the gospel and be witnesses. Its just those in Judaea are the ones Jesus told to 'flee to the mountains'

Then in Matthew chapter 25 Jesus has gathered all nations before him (see verse 32) and separates them from each other. Sheep on the right, goats on the left. It does not say he gets the sheep first going to heaven and then the goats he puts through tribulation AND punishment.

It seems both go through tribulation, and Jesus sees how their faith or lack of it is tested, then decides which ones go to heaven or hell.

thoughts? Just putting out there

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

I kinda think those who adhere to pre-tribulation are like those who play monopoly and covet those 'get out of jail free' cards

I dont know. I know scripture does say 'after tribulation' rather than before. But of course lots of people prefer that they never face any tribulation of any kind. My question is if they dont, how do they know their faith is real? If its never actually tested...?

Whether it be Great Tribulation or just personal tribulation. For who can say any Christian leads a charmed life in this world?

Its just a strange thing to think that for seven years according to some popular teaching the church will disappear. Just how is never explained. Oh we just not going to be here. Ok....and just where will the believers go. I thought they would be prohesying or witnessing but apparently for those who believe we will be raptured there is just nothing for us to do.

Instead a logical reading of Matthew 26 is that after tribulation Jesus will appear. Right up until the end we can preach the gospel and be witnesses. Its just those in Judaea are the ones Jesus told to 'flee to the mountains'

Then in Matthew chapter 25 Jesus has gathered all nations before him (see verse 32) and separates them from each other. Sheep on the right, goats on the left. It does not say he gets the sheep first going to heaven and then the goats he puts through tribulation AND punishment.

It seems both go through tribulation, and Jesus sees how their faith or lack of it is tested, then decides which ones go to heaven or hell.

thoughts? Just putting out there

1 Peter 4:17 KJV 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Revelation 18:4 KJV 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Mark 13:14 KJV 14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

 

[SomeDisciple]

I don't know why, but I've never felt right when I've heard the pre-tribulation rapture preached. For some reason it often seems, as you've mentioned, like escapism; but also as if some of these preachers are trying to scare people with the idea of "missing the rapture". This has no effect on anyone who has given serious consideration that an immanent rapture changes nothing: if the rapture isn't immanent, death is. Everyone needs to repent now, believe now- it doesn't matter when the rapture actually is because the time of salvation is now.

Oftentimes people will downplay the significance of eschatological truth; or say that we cannot know for sure which eschatological teachings are true. It seems clear to me that Paul and the other Apostles had a strong idea of how history would play out; not the details, but they understood an outline of events.

Of course the victory of Jesus is central and the most important theme of Revelation and the bible in general. Exactly what this looks like; however, varies from one person's understanding to another. The reason this is important is because- how we believe things are supposed to go will often effect our worldview and how we act out our faith. And our worldviews are capitalized upon by politicians and other forces that intermeddle with religion- and they give birth to false eschatology and false teaching to try and shape our understanding in a way that will bring about an outcome that is favorable to them in some way.

I've seen some great posts on Christian Chat: people that have devoted years and decades to the study of eschatology have brought up excellent points that I have felt led to consider. I personally will be doing more prayer and putting in more study on this topic for awhile. A lot of humble asking and seeking and knocking- I think that is what it takes.

 

[Lanolin]

I thought the 'Left Behind' series was fiction but there are some preachers still adhering to it.

Its the whole 'Im never going to get sick or suffer loss, because Im now saved and a christian' sense of entitlement that irks me from this teaching.

While yes Christians are blessed, it doesnt automatically come like that. And I think it also dampens our witness, to others when we ought to be a witness to our very last breath on earth...

The other is that its quite unfair to Israel, damning a whole nation to a 7 year period where they cant accept Jesus no matter what because apparently 'the church' has disappeared, removed or been raptured. We know God does love Israel/ Jerusalem it being the apple of His eye. Despite all its chosen ones (the elect) have been through and even when they seemingly turned away...Gods hand was stretched out still

scripture clearly states 'every eye will see Him' not just believers.

so yea..while SOME dispensational type biblical teaching makes sense, this one really twists the tale.

 

[John146]

I kinda think those who adhere to pre-tribulation are like those who play monopoly and covet those 'get out of jail free' cards

I dont know. I know scripture does say 'after tribulation' rather than before. But of course lots of people prefer that they never face any tribulation of any kind. My question is if they dont, how do they know their faith is real? If its never actually tested...?

Whether it be Great Tribulation or just personal tribulation. For who can say any Christian leads a charmed life in this world?

Its just a strange thing to think that for seven years according to some popular teaching the church will disappear. Just how is never explained. Oh we just not going to be here. Ok....and just where will the believers go. I thought they would be prohesying or witnessing but apparently for those who believe we will be raptured there is just nothing for us to do.

Instead a logical reading of Matthew 26 is that after tribulation Jesus will appear. Right up until the end we can preach the gospel and be witnesses. Its just those in Judaea are the ones Jesus told to 'flee to the mountains'

Then in Matthew chapter 25 Jesus has gathered all nations before him (see verse 32) and separates them from each other. Sheep on the right, goats on the left. It does not say he gets the sheep first going to heaven and then the goats he puts through tribulation AND punishment.

It seems both go through tribulation, and Jesus sees how their faith or lack of it is tested, then decides which ones go to heaven or hell.

thoughts? Just putting out there

Postmillennialism has to equate the church with the nation of Israel, a failure to rightly divide the word of truth.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Left Behind co-author Jerry Jenkins has made a ton of money off the false pre-trib rapture doctrine. Now his son, Dallas, is making a ton of money off of falsely representing Jesus in The Chosen.

 

[Blade]

I have always wondered why pre trib gets attacked made fun of so much. For something some believe is not correct the way they talked about it speaks volumes. What we do not read about are those that disagree with pre trib yet never once make fun of it in any way. For they say "I am post trib and heres why. Does not mean I am correct". Those are people worth listening to. Sorry but your doctrine on "caught up/Rapture" is no more true then Pre-Trib. So you that think you must be tested where no other in history has ever been tested by Gods wrath. Did you know that? Noah had to stay yet lifted up or we would not be here. Lot oddly didn't have to be tested for "as long as you are here I can do nothing" had to be gone. This is knowing if there were just 10 righteous those cities would still be there. Now there are millions of righteous but this time Gods wrath as I read it is on the whole world and all in it. But you the righteous will still be here? God could not protect Lot in the city for Lot had to leave. Again whats coming and you can not answer since its no where in the word is....how are you protected? Here.... Why is it you will have no power no authority over the enemy? You know the lawless one? False Prophet and the beast. So the lawless one will be doing lying wonders that look as if only a GOD can do.

And you that have the king of kings lord of lords and the sweet holy Spirit in you can do nothing. Just going to stand by are you and watch say nothing? Were you not given all power all authority over the enemy and nothing shall by any means hurt you? You just blindly read GOD gives power to him to over come the saints and you don't wonder how this is possible? He can't give the enemy any power over you that have CHRIST and the Holy Spirit forever in you. We read He is taken out of the way and only then not now but then can come out in the open and do lying wonders. Gee what now has more power all authority to keep Satan at bay? Yeah he can't do it now. Why? Greater is He that is in YOU then he thats in the world. That forever never change.

To know Jesus is in heaven at the right hand of the Father. Has made us a place where His Father is. Knowing He said to us where I am you will be. No where does it say I will come to you so where you are I will be. He made us a place so where He is (heaven) you will be. The simple fact no one for post explains this other then "what Jesus was really saying". Again this is knowing Paul that knew saw more then anyone I would say.. said "we which remain". You can't twist that. What He saw telling them you didn't miss Him. Told them what would happen and said "we that remain". This and the wrath the power authority does not fit with post. And the being "tested" oh .. to think that about the Father. You talking wrath.. He never has tested anyone that way.

So in all this and not written well at all sound as if I am pre trib. Yet I can not prove it no more then I can post. I will not believe based on how I personally feel. I read and then .. I must just watch be ready for Him every moment of ever day. If I can not live believe now I never would during the great tribulation. So He is coming now.. I watch ready now. Just because some say they believe in Jesus does not mean they do. Like I said the talk speaks volumes. I am not right here. ALL I said are things I think about. I LISTEN to read here all sides. To read Rev up to Chapt 4. Then how does John get caught up? This is after Christ talking about the Church and what was the last one? Some believe they are ages. Ok.. but John gets caught up and Christ shows him what must happen? After. To blindly toss that out for me is unwise. Just speak words of life.. know if they do not agree with your doctrine that can be sorry just as wrong.. talk about them the way you want to be talked about. WOW love we get alone.. we just lovingly with out making fun of them.. awesome HE gets the glory He gets the praise

 

[Lanolin]

Not sure am following, am neither pre- or post- or what

I think I am one of those that are pan- ie. it will all pan out eventually. Not pan-demically though lol

Most of us may not live to see Jesus return but we will def be resurrected...if we are believers

and that will be exciting because there will be billions of believers in heaven starting from the first converts, so...arent you excited about seeing your loved ones and christians you may have never met on earth but heard about? As well as Jesus ...can you imagine...I dont think people can, how BIG Jesus is going to be that EVERY EYE will see him

 

[Mem]

Tho I might have a difficult time explaining the post-(i mean -trib as opposed to the pre/post-mil) view, but I struggle to even understand the pre-view. Here, I will attempt to follow it (inserting questions that prevent me from a full understanding) and anyone can let me know what I am missing (if anything).

-Believers are raptured before tribulation begins (Q#1: Is this synonymous with God's wrath? in the pre-view? I understand believers are not subject to God's wrath. I see tribulation administered via the enemy upon believers and wrath to be administered via God upon His enemies.

-The Anti-Christ comes to power, deceiving because that's what he does best, and tribulation begins for everyone else who weren't believers (Q#2: Who's left to believe and who helps them believe? or at the least not believe the false prophet), that is if we can only believe by Holy Spirit guidance, and if it is the Holy Spirit that is taken out of the way, along with believers during the tribulation? Q#3 then how can anyone resist or endure in faith during the tribulation?

Then after the 7 years are over, Jesus returns with all the believers to save those that became believers within the 7-year tribulation. I understand that the brightness of His coming destroys the anti-Christ and the false prophet, Satan is bound so that he no longer can deceive anyone for a thousand years and Christ reigns with (the first group of believers over the second group of believers? Q#4),

or does He reign with believers over unbelievers? Q#5) I understand Satan can no longer deceive anyone because he is bound for a thousand years,
that is until the thousand years are over when Satan is released again for a short time, after which he'll gather those that he deceive(-s?or-d? Q#6) for his last attempt at usurping God's reign.


I'm getting confused trying to not be confused by the pre-view.

 

[JTB]

Pray for pre
Prepare for post
And any other time, like right now, would be fine by me

 

[Lanolin]

theres those on the fence...the mid-tribbbers

I am pretty sure it says that those that endure to the end will be saved. Not those that get there first. Also the first shall be last and the last shall be first.

Doesnt that do your head in? So you cant jump the queue.

 

[studentoftheword]

I thought they would be prohesying or witnessing but apparently for those who believe we will be raptured there is just nothing for us to do.

you say ------I thought they would be prohesying or witnessing

I don't think you understand what is going to happen to this earth ------this is God's Wrath on sinful man and a cursed earth ------

I don't think believers will be here prohesying and witnessing with the opening of the first seals ------anyone who is here is going to be running for cover and hiding ----NOT Preaching or Prophesying ----from the the opening of the first 6 seals ----which starts in Revelation 6

I say -----everyone here on this earth will be in great fear hiding ---running and covering their heads wishing they weren't there ------

People also ask
What are the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse name

The Book of Revelations in the New Testament lists the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse as conquest, war, famine and death,


Revelation 6

New International Version

The Seals
6 I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2 I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.


3 When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!” 4 Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword.


5 When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. 6 Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “Two pounds[a] of wheat for a day’s wages,[b] and six pounds[c] of barley for a day’s wages,[d] and do not damage the oil and the wine!”


7 When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” 8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.


9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[e] were killed just as they had been.


12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I say
The only people preaching and prophesying will be God's hand picked people --who He marks and keeps safe during the 7 year tribulation ---- they are the 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel and then God sends 2 witnesses ----who many say is Moses and Elijah as they were the 2 who appeared when Jesus was transfigured on the mountain ----

Revelation 7

New International Version

144,000 Sealed


i say
So from Revelation 6 -------things just get worse from there ------so believers preaching and prophesying during the tribulation -I don't think so -----only God's chosen who He marks and protects will have the power and ability will be doing that ----and that is the 144,000 Jews ----

 

[Lanolin]

tribulation is different from wrath though See Revelation 7:14

seems like the saints come out of Great Tribulation! That doesnt mean they never exeperience it they have just gone through it! Wrath happens AFTER to unbelievers...


Its like ...catching fish...all fish caught, then sorted...the good ones are taken and the bad ones get sent back.

or winnowing wheat from chaff. Everything gets winnowed, but the wheat stays and the chaff gets blown away.

You never sort things or winnow or weed? ie. you weed the garden you pull ou the weeds and let the good plants stay. Then you can say the garden has been weeded. The good plants dont magically disappear....

 

[Lanolin]

ths strange thing being satan being bound for 1000 years right while Jesus is ruling

and the pre tribbers claim that the holy spirit it taken out of the way and the anti-christ is ruling, like the exact opposite lol...but hasnt the anti-christ always been ruling anyway? I mean thats just everyday stuff for most of humanity.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

...excellent points that I have felt led to consider. I personally will be doing more prayer and putting in more study on this topic for awhile. A lot of humble asking and seeking and knocking- I think that is what it takes.

Amen! Be Encouraged with studies below...

I kinda think those who adhere to pre-tribulation are like those who play monopoly and covet those 'get out of jail free' cards

Precious friend, actually some of us do not play, But examine and
study God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, and then we adhere to:

God's PRE-TOJT Great Grace Departure doctrine:

Pre-Trib Great GRACE Departure I
+
Pre-Trib Great GRACE Departure II

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II).

Grace, Peace, And JOY!...

 

[oyster67]

I kinda think those who adhere to pre-tribulation are like those who play monopoly and covet those 'get out of jail free' cards

I am a pre-tribber, so I guess this is addressed to me. I am so thankful that my Savior died on the Cross to set me free.

I know scripture does say 'after tribulation' rather than before. But of course lots of people prefer that they never face any tribulation of any kind. My question is if they dont, how do they know their faith is real? If its never actually tested...?

Are you saying that you believe the faith of believers has not been tested in the current age? We do not have to go through the Great Tribulation in order to encounter tribulation.

Its just a strange thing to think that for seven years according to some popular teaching the church will disappear.

It's popular because it is what the Bible teaches. The Church goes up to the wedding and the unbelievers are left to endure the wrath of God. The point that so many seem confused about is what this Tribulation Period is for. God pours out His wrath on the enemy, not His Bride.

 

[Lanolin]

I am a pre-tribber, so I guess this is addressed to me. I am so thankful that my Savior died on the Cross to set me free.



Are you saying that you believe the faith of believers has not been tested in the current age? We do not have to go through the Great Tribulation in order to encounter tribulation.


It's popular because it is what the Bible teaches. The Church goes up to the wedding and the unbelievers are left to endure the wrath of God. The point that so many seem confused about is what this Tribulation Period is for. God pours out His wrath on the enemy, not His Bride.

you seem confused between tribulation and wrath and then you say its Great tribulation.
which one is it. no am not saying what you are saying. Every believer will go through tribulation but they are not under Gods wrath. We are sealed.

How do you separate the wheat from the chaff, well its through this process, tribulation. Its like harvest. You pull up the whole plant...the entire field. . The wheat is separated saved in barn and chaff is burned. Buring the chaff is not tribulation - thats wrath. Do you get it or you dont understand.

 

[JaumeJ]

Who are those of understanding who help others during the last tribulation, that great one?

 

[Lanolin]

Who are those of understanding who help others during the last tribulation, that great one?

Angels?
saints?
anyway , dont buy that the church will be removed. His Word endures forever. So even if everyone physically left there will still be Bibles. The gates of hell will not prevail against His church.

 

[cv5]

I kinda think those who adhere to pre-tribulation are like those who play monopoly and covet those 'get out of jail free' cards

I dont know. I know scripture does say 'after tribulation' rather than before. But of course lots of people prefer that they never face any tribulation of any kind. My question is if they dont, how do they know their faith is real? If its never actually tested...?

Whether it be Great Tribulation or just personal tribulation. For who can say any Christian leads a charmed life in this world?

Its just a strange thing to think that for seven years according to some popular teaching the church will disappear. Just how is never explained. Oh we just not going to be here. Ok....and just where will the believers go. I thought they would be prohesying or witnessing but apparently for those who believe we will be raptured there is just nothing for us to do.

Instead a logical reading of Matthew 26 is that after tribulation Jesus will appear. Right up until the end we can preach the gospel and be witnesses. Its just those in Judaea are the ones Jesus told to 'flee to the mountains'

Then in Matthew chapter 25 Jesus has gathered all nations before him (see verse 32) and separates them from each other. Sheep on the right, goats on the left. It does not say he gets the sheep first going to heaven and then the goats he puts through tribulation AND punishment.

It seems both go through tribulation, and Jesus sees how their faith or lack of it is tested, then decides which ones go to heaven or hell.

thoughts? Just putting out there

The Church is illustrated in no uncertain terms seen in heaven Rev ch 4 & 5. So describled in Rev Ch 2 & 3.

Before the man of sin is revealed in Rev ch 6.....the beginning of birth pangs/start of the DOTL, the start of the tribulation.

The Church age has run its course at the rapture. THEN AND ONLY THEN the 70th week of Daniel/Rev 6 seals/redemption of Israel begins.