Are there any who will admit they believe in the doctrine of Immortalization

[soberxp]

The restoration movement has been going nearly as long as the reformation. Every fifty or a hundred years some new restorationists come along who claim it's their responsibility to restore the church to its pure form in preparation for the Lord's return. His return is always imminent, and it's been imminent for 500 years now.

What can I say? Are you blind? Or do you just not believe anyone anymore?

 

[SomeDisciple]

Definately he was doing a new thing some have a really hard time accepting it though

Yeah, those things were new thousands of years ago when those prophecies were written: but those scriptures don't point to a disappearance and a later reappearance of things in the church.

 

[ResidentAlien]

I don't do riddles; if you want me to understand you, talk straight.

 

[soberxp]

I don't do riddles; if you want me to understand you, talk straight.

I've been here a long time, and you don't know about the https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/who-is-christ-for-you.208250/page-3#post-4953840

 

[oyster67]

amen

“For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

immortality in Christ isn’t of this world and doesn’t happen in this body

We arent finished being made yet


“it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:44‬ ‭

The natural dies and the spirit lives

“As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:48-50‬ ‭

I think when we talk immortal some probably are talking about our flesh and blood rather than our spirit. Of course a spirit needs a spiritual world and home and not the one for flesh and blood

spirit is life we aren’t being remade for this world

What do you think our glorified bodies might look/feel like?

 

[ResidentAlien]

I've been here a long time, and you don't know about the https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/who-is-christ-for-you.208250/page-3#post-4953840

Sorry, I've lost interest. Have a nice evening.

 

[oyster67]

His return is always imminent, and it's been imminent for 500 years now.

Some say 70.

 

[soberxp]

Sorry, I've lost interest. Have a nice evening.

Then stop complaining, because you are missing out, but still complaining.

 

[Runningman]

This doctrine is especially prevalent in groups influenced by the Latter Rain movement and Manifested Sons of God theology. Probably the most high-profile of these groups are Word of Faith and the NAR, but it's increasingly finding its way into a lot of different arenas. I'm not saying everyone in the NAR or Word of Faith believes it; I'm just saying a lot of authors and online ministries connected to these groups teach and promote it.

I'm not talking about the instantaneous change and glorification believers will experience at the appearing of the Lord. The immortalization doctrine teaches that by living a life of holiness and submission to God we can attain a state of immortality here and now. I've noticed milder forms of this creeping in, such as the notion that we can are not sinners and the "little gods" doctrine.

There's a good article on the Latter Rain and Manifested Sons of God here: https://www.wayoflife.org/reports/latter_rain_and_manifest_sons_of_god.html

It's a matter of when the gift of eternal life is yours, in your hands, to keep forever. Is eternal life in possession now or is it received later?

If eternal life is received today then there may be some truth to what they are saying even if everything they are saying is not accurate. If it is received later then what they are saying is bogus.

Also, there is a difference between being promised something, or guaranteed something, but not getting that thing promised until later. I'm interested to hear anyone's thoughts on this and please cite verses if any.

 

[cv5]

Maybe you don't believe it; maybe people you know don't, or don't admit it. But to call it a rumor shows your ignorance of the history of the Charismatic movement. One of the movement's biggest idols, William Branham said:

"All right. Now, here is what I'm trying to say to you: the law of reproduction brings forth of its kind (Genesis 1:11). These last days, true church-bride comes to the headstone. Will be the super church; a super race as they near the great headstone. They will be so much like Him, they will be in His very image, in the order to be united with Him. They will be one. They will be the very manifestation of the Word of the living God. Denominations can never produce this. This will be . . . they will produce their creeds and dogmas mixed with the Word and brings a hybrid product. (The Spoken Word is the Original Seed, 1962)​

If you want to know the birthplace of most of the Charismatic movements more out-there doctrines look no further than Branham. Nowadays they're not so out-there but are finding mainstream acceptance in watered-down form. Today you'll hear words like "maturity" and "unity." When a Charismatic writer or speaker says these things, 9 chances out of 10 he or she is talking about the "Bride" reaching a stage of purity in preparation to meet the Bridegroom.

There are many very good reasons that I assiduously avoid Charismatics/Pentecostals. Even main-line type. Stuff like this for example.

Its just one crazy tangent or stunt after another.

 

[Cameron143]

It's a matter of when the gift of eternal life is yours, in your hands, to keep forever. Is eternal life in possession now or is it received later?

If eternal life is received today then there may be some truth to what they are saying even if everything they are saying is not accurate. If it is received later then what they are saying is bogus.

Also, there is a difference between being promised something, or guaranteed something, but not getting that thing promised until later. I'm interested to hear anyone's thoughts on this and please cite verses if any.

John 3:16....Jesus came to give eternal life
John 17:3...Eternal life is knowing God and knowing Christ
John 20:31...it begins when we believe
1 John 4:13...It is possible for believers to know

 

[soberxp]

If you want to find the bone in the egg, you should say that their name is still very sectarian, even though they want to break the denomination and unite all the people.

Apart from the criticism, I don't see anything that they are advocating that is against the Bible.

But I don't know the truth of the matter, so I'm reserving more judgment or opinion.

 

[ResidentAlien]

John 3:16....Jesus came to give eternal life
John 17:3...Eternal life is knowing God and knowing Christ
John 20:31...it begins when we believe
1 John 4:13...It is possible for believers to know

Where in these passages does it say we've been given eternal life independently of Christ? If we remain in Christ we have eternal life, not in ourselves. If someone is granted eternal life independently of Christ, where's the incentive to remain in Christ?

 

[Cameron143]

Where in these passages does it say we've been given eternal life independently of Christ? If we remain in Christ we have eternal life, not in ourselves. If someone is granted eternal life independently of Christ, where's the incentive to remain in Christ?

I don't believe you can have eternal life independently of Christ

 

[soberxp]

Where in these passages does it say we've been given eternal life independently of Christ? If we remain in Christ we have eternal life, not in ourselves. If someone is granted eternal life independently of Christ, where's the incentive to remain in Christ?

The article does not say that people live forever in this world. I did not read that you described in this article.

Please don't object just for the sake of objecting, you can start by contacting them and asking them to change their name, for example a new name would be

Unite Churches of Christ.

 

[Cameron143]

Where in these passages does it say we've been given eternal life independently of Christ? If we remain in Christ we have eternal life, not in ourselves. If someone is granted eternal life independently of Christ, where's the incentive to remain in Christ?

My understanding of what the poster asked was whether or not eternal life was a present or future promise. I believe it's a present promise. I don't agree with how it is presented by immortalization, but I do believe we can know God in the present.

 

[Runningman]

John 3:16....Jesus came to give eternal life
John 17:3...Eternal life is knowing God and knowing Christ
John 20:31...it begins when we believe
1 John 4:13...It is possible for believers to know

Could it possibly be a bit more nuanced than what those verses say?

Jesus said in the age to come:
Luke 18
29“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Paul said at the last trumpet:
1 Corinthians 15
51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come to pass: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

 

[Cameron143]

Could it possibly be a bit more nuanced than what those verses say?

Jesus said in the age to come:
Luke 18
29“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Paul said at the last trumpet:
1 Corinthians 15
51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come to pass: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

I'm open to whatever someone might share.
I think your last 2 verses pertain to the eternal estate when time is no more. So I don't believe they apply to the present.
Your initial verse speaks about an age to come. So it depends on whether you believe that age to be the NT age or an eternal estate.

 

[Runningman]

I'm open to whatever someone might share.
I think your last 2 verses pertain to the eternal estate when time is no more. So I don't believe they apply to the present.
Your initial verse speaks about an age to come. So it depends on whether you believe that age to be the NT age or an eternal estate.

I honestly don’t know for sure, yet. It would seem like Jesus is either speaking of one or two instances of eternal life. Sometimes it seems like He’s saying right now you have life, but then He talks about getting eternal life later.

Like here’s another one for example:

Luke 20
34Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage,
36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

 

[Cameron143]

I'm open to whatever someone might share.
I think your last 2 verses pertain to the eternal estate when time is no more. So I don't believe they apply to the present.
Your initial verse speaks about an age to come. So it depends on whether you believe that age to be the NT age or an eternal estate.

I honestly don’t know for sure, yet. It would seem like Jesus is either speaking of one or two instances of eternal life. Sometimes it seems like He’s saying right now you have life, but then He talks about getting eternal life later.

Like here’s another one for example:

Luke 20
34Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage,
36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

I agree. At first glance that verse can appear to say a number of things.
But I do know God is knowable and interacts with His people in the world today, as is Christ. Otherwise, we will all be told to depart even as those mentioned in Matthew 7:21-23.