What did He see?

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oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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#21
John 5:19...Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

What things did Jesus see the Father doing?
I think Jesus was just reiterating "my Father and I are One." (v.18)

John 5:19 Context
16And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. 18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. 19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#22
I think Jesus was just reiterating "my Father and I are One." (v.18)

John 5:19 Context
16And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. 18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. 19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Thanks. I appreciate your reply.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,894
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Oregon
#23
.
I appreciate what you have posted. But what did He actually see?

You have my sympathy Cameron. I truly do feel sorry for you and wish there
was something I could do to help; but alas, I am not trained to assist folks
who have problems with reading.
_
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#26
.



You have my sympathy Cameron. I truly do feel sorry for you and wish there
was something I could do to help; but alas, I am not trained to assist folks
who have problems with reading.
_
I appreciate your reply. If you will allow, perhaps I can ask you a few yes/no questions to better help you understand what I'm asking.
Please forgive my poor communication skills.
Will you indulge me by answering some yes/no questions?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#27
Examine what He did. From that you will know what He saw.
I agree this will have the desired effect for what Jesus saw in particular. But what I would really like to know is if there are evidences of God at work that we can recognize today and follow.
For example, if you look in the sky you will see an exhaust trail that follows an airplane. The exhaust remains even when the plane has long since past. So it is possible to go outside and look up and see only the exhaust and still know that a plane had been there because only a plane leaves such a mark in the sky. So I'm asking are there evidences of the presence of God that allow one to know God is present and working?
I appreciate all those who have answered and endured to this point.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#28
I agree this will have the desired effect for what Jesus saw in particular. But what I would really like to know is if there are evidences of God at work that we can recognize today and follow.
For example, if you look in the sky you will see an exhaust trail that follows an airplane. The exhaust remains even when the plane has long since past. So it is possible to go outside and look up and see only the exhaust and still know that a plane had been there because only a plane leaves such a mark in the sky. So I'm asking are there evidences of the presence of God that allow one to know God is present and working?
I appreciate all those who have answered and endured to this point.
Romans 1:17
“For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#29
Romans 1:17
“For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
I do believe this is one of the evidence of God at work and I believe this is why Jesus asked those He healed if they believed and at other times didn't heal because of unbelief.
Do you know of others?
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#30
I do believe this is one of the evidence of God at work and I believe this is why Jesus asked those He healed if they believed and at other times didn't heal because of unbelief.
Do you know of others?
I believe the signature of God is everywhere. Romans 1 speaks to this.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#31
I believe the signature of God is everywhere. Romans 1 speaks to this.
I agree. I'm trying to limit the recognition of God here to His work in the world today.
Some works will be considered gold silver and precious stone. Some wood hay and stubble. I'm wondering if we can know the difference between the two and is it related to joining what God is doing already or simply doing works that are demonstrated in the Bible.
 

Mofastus

Active member
May 23, 2019
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#32
John 5:19...Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

What things did Jesus see the Father doing?
Jesus is the Word, He saw all things, did all things, John 1:1-3
 
Oct 29, 2022
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18
#33
John 5:19...Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

What things did Jesus see the Father doing?
From John Gill commentary;

John 5:19
Then answered Jesus, and said unto them,.... They charged him with blasphemy for calling God his Father, and making himself equal to him: and his answer is so far from denying the thing, or observing any mistake, or misrepresentation of his words, that he allows the whole, and vindicates himself in so saying:
verily verily, I say unto you; nothing is more certain; it may be depended on as truth; I who am truth itself, the "Amen", and faithful witness, aver it with the greatest assurance:
the Son can do nothing of himself; or he does do nothing of himself, nor will he do anything of himself; that is, he neither does, nor will, nor can do anything alone or separate from his Father, or in which he is not concerned; not anything without his knowledge and consent, or contrary to his will: he does everything in conjunction with him; with the same power, having the same will, being of the same nature, and equal to each other: for these words do not design any weakness in the Son, or want of power in him to do anything of himself; that is, by his own power: for he has by his word of power spoke all things out of nothing, and by the same upholds all things; he has himself bore the sins of his people, and by himself purged them away, and has raised himself from the dead; but they express his perfection; that he does nothing, and can do nothing of himself, in opposition to his Father, and in contradiction to his will: as Satan speaks of his own, and evil men alienated from God, act of themselves, and do that which is contrary to the nature and will of God; but the Son cannot do so, being of the same nature with God, and therefore never acts separate from him, or contrary to him, but always co-operates and acts with him, and therefore never to be blamed for what he does. The Syriac, Arabic, and Persic versions render it, "the Son cannot do anything of his own will"; so Nonnus; as separate from, or contrary to his Father's will, but always in agreement with it, they being one in nature, and so in will and work. He does nothing therefore
but what he seeth the Father do; not that he sees the Father actually do a work, and then he does one after him, as the creation of the world, the assumption of human nature, and redemption of man, or any particular miracle, as if upon observing one done, he did the like; but that he being brought up with him, and lying in his bosom, was privy to the whole plan of his works, and saw in his nature and infinite mind, and in his vast counsels, purposes, and designs, all that he was doing, or would do, and so did the same, or acted agreeably to them; and which still shows and proves their unity of nature, and perfect equality, since there was nothing in the Father's mind but was known to the Son, seen, and observed, and acted up to by him: so Philo the Jew (e) says of the
"Father's most ancient Son, whom he otherwise calls the firstborn; that being begotten, he imitates the Father, and seeing, or looking to his exemplars and archetypes, forms species;''
that is, being conversant with the original and eternal ideas of things in the divine mind, acts according to them, which he could not do if he was not of the same nature with, and equal to his Father. Moreover, the Son sees what the Father does by co-operating with him, and so does no other than what he sees the Father do, in conjunction with him: to which may be added, that the phrase shows, that the Son does nothing but in wisdom, and with knowledge; and that as the Father, so he does all things after the counsel of his will:

for whatsoever things he doth, these also doth the Son likewise; the Son does the selfsame works as the Father does, such as the works of creation and providence, the government both of the church, and of the world; and he does these things in like manner, with the same power, and by the same authority, his Father does, and which proves him to be equal with him; the very thing the Jews understood him to have asserted, and which they charged him with: and this he strongly maintained. The Syriac version reads, "for the things which the Father does, the same also does the Son"; and the Persic version, "whatsoever God has done, the Son also does like unto it".

Cheers.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,075
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#34
From John Gill commentary;

John 5:19
Then answered Jesus, and said unto them,.... They charged him with blasphemy for calling God his Father, and making himself equal to him: and his answer is so far from denying the thing, or observing any mistake, or misrepresentation of his words, that he allows the whole, and vindicates himself in so saying:
verily verily, I say unto you; nothing is more certain; it may be depended on as truth; I who am truth itself, the "Amen", and faithful witness, aver it with the greatest assurance:
the Son can do nothing of himself; or he does do nothing of himself, nor will he do anything of himself; that is, he neither does, nor will, nor can do anything alone or separate from his Father, or in which he is not concerned; not anything without his knowledge and consent, or contrary to his will: he does everything in conjunction with him; with the same power, having the same will, being of the same nature, and equal to each other: for these words do not design any weakness in the Son, or want of power in him to do anything of himself; that is, by his own power: for he has by his word of power spoke all things out of nothing, and by the same upholds all things; he has himself bore the sins of his people, and by himself purged them away, and has raised himself from the dead; but they express his perfection; that he does nothing, and can do nothing of himself, in opposition to his Father, and in contradiction to his will: as Satan speaks of his own, and evil men alienated from God, act of themselves, and do that which is contrary to the nature and will of God; but the Son cannot do so, being of the same nature with God, and therefore never acts separate from him, or contrary to him, but always co-operates and acts with him, and therefore never to be blamed for what he does. The Syriac, Arabic, and Persic versions render it, "the Son cannot do anything of his own will"; so Nonnus; as separate from, or contrary to his Father's will, but always in agreement with it, they being one in nature, and so in will and work. He does nothing therefore
but what he seeth the Father do; not that he sees the Father actually do a work, and then he does one after him, as the creation of the world, the assumption of human nature, and redemption of man, or any particular miracle, as if upon observing one done, he did the like; but that he being brought up with him, and lying in his bosom, was privy to the whole plan of his works, and saw in his nature and infinite mind, and in his vast counsels, purposes, and designs, all that he was doing, or would do, and so did the same, or acted agreeably to them; and which still shows and proves their unity of nature, and perfect equality, since there was nothing in the Father's mind but was known to the Son, seen, and observed, and acted up to by him: so Philo the Jew (e) says of the
"Father's most ancient Son, whom he otherwise calls the firstborn; that being begotten, he imitates the Father, and seeing, or looking to his exemplars and archetypes, forms species;''
that is, being conversant with the original and eternal ideas of things in the divine mind, acts according to them, which he could not do if he was not of the same nature with, and equal to his Father. Moreover, the Son sees what the Father does by co-operating with him, and so does no other than what he sees the Father do, in conjunction with him: to which may be added, that the phrase shows, that the Son does nothing but in wisdom, and with knowledge; and that as the Father, so he does all things after the counsel of his will:

for whatsoever things he doth, these also doth the Son likewise; the Son does the selfsame works as the Father does, such as the works of creation and providence, the government both of the church, and of the world; and he does these things in like manner, with the same power, and by the same authority, his Father does, and which proves him to be equal with him; the very thing the Jews understood him to have asserted, and which they charged him with: and this he strongly maintained. The Syriac version reads, "for the things which the Father does, the same also does the Son"; and the Persic version, "whatsoever God has done, the Son also does like unto it".

Cheers.
Thanks for responding.
 

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
1,618
810
113
#35
John 5:19...Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

What things did Jesus see the Father doing?
Whatever Jesus was doing. the Gospels are a record of that.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,778
8,614
113
#37
John 5:19...Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

What things did Jesus see the Father doing?
All kinds of stuff. In real time.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,075
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#39
Whatever Jesus was doing. the Gospels are a record of that.
I agree. Do you have any insight into how Jesus knew what to do and not to do.
For example, how did He choose who to heal or not? How did He know it was time to move from one place to another? How did He make decisions about when to feed or not?
And does this relate to doing what He saw the Father doing? And how did He recognize what the Father was doing?
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#40
I agree. I'm trying to limit the recognition of God here to His work in the world today.
Some works will be considered gold silver and precious stone. Some wood hay and stubble. I'm wondering if we can know the difference between the two and is it related to joining what God is doing already or simply doing works that are demonstrated in the Bible.
I suspect that it is not the work itself as much as the motive behind it that is judged.