Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[reneweddaybyday]

The ones who do not come to repentance reject that which God "grants" to them. It's not that they can't believe ... it's that they reject that which is to be believed, even though what is to be believed has been revealed to them.

They dont come to repentance simply because Christ didnt die for them

Scripture plainly tells us that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ...

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.



Scripture is also clear that God reveals Himself and some reject God ... not because they do not have faith, but because they suppress/restrain the truth in unrighteousness:

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse


Rom 1:18-20 tells us that God makes plain His eternal power and Godhead ... however, this truth is suppressed. The words "who hold" in vs 18 are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress; hold back; restrain. When the Word of God is spoken, the hearer restrains the truth from reaching his/her heart.

It is clear from vs 19 that God reveals His eternal power and Godhead and it is clear from vs 18 that it is the person who rejects God.
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[reneweddaybyday]

intentionally obtuse.

Indepth spiritual insight is not required to understand the words written in Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

A person either believes what is written or he/she rejects what is written.

However, if you teach folks you witness to that they will never understand Scripture, then you are teaching exactly what the adversary wants taught and you will see Bibles "setting around collecting dust" because (according to you) the Word of God is just "words written on paper".

The natural mind of man cant know and understand the scriptures

more obfuscation on your part. The "natural mind of man" can "know and understand" Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

no in-depth spiritual insight is required by the "natural mind of man" to understand what is written in Gen 1:1. However, the "natural mind of man" that rejects what is written in Gen 1:1 will reap the consequence of his/her having suppressed the truth in unrighteousness.
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[reneweddaybyday]

believing in Jesus is an evidence one has been born of God. Jn 1:12-13

John 1:12-13 does not support your claim

John 1:

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name


The Lord Jesus Christ clearly states that He gave power [the right, the privilege] to become the sons of God (vs 12) to those who did not reject Him (vs 11).


If they are already "born of God", they already are the sons of God. There would be no need for the Lord Jesus Christ to give them what they already have and are.
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[reneweddaybyday]

I have been studying Rom 5:10 for decades

It is wholly apparent that what you have been "studying for decades" is your erroneous dogma concerning Rom 5:10.

you obviously dont believe it.

that I reject your erroneous dogma does not mean I "obviously don't believe" Scripture.

His death reconciled them to God even while they were enemies, unbelievers

nope ... if they are reconciled, they are no longer enemies.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

enemies translated from Greek echthros – ("enemy"), implies irreconcilable hostility,

reconciled translated from Greek katallássō – decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.


The one who is justified by faith (Rom 5:1) is no longer an enemy because he/she is now reconciled. Both parties are now reconciled.


God (the Party of the first part) established His eternal purpose in eternity past ... God reconciled Himself to mankind through the death of His Son.


The believer (the party of the second part) is reconciled at the time he/she is justified. At that point, both parties (God and the believer) came to the same position (see definition of reconciled translated from Greek katallássō).


Under your erroneous dogma, a person is simultaneously irreconcilable and reconciled.
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[reneweddaybyday]

There you have it, the word world Kosmos never as a rule in scripture, means every member of the human family, thats just nonsense !

I never said it did.

I merely pointed out that you were incorrect in your claim that the word kosmos as used in John 1:29, John 3:16-17, 1 John 2:2 refers to Thayer's definition #8 (as you erroneously state).

Thayer's clearly states that the word kosmos as used in John 1:29, John 3:16-17, 1 John 2:2 refers to definition #5.

From Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

5. the inhabitants of the world: ... particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race ... John 1:10, 29 ... John 3:16 ... 1 John 2:2​

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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[reneweddaybyday]

apparently you do not understand the difference between myself (and others) examining/scrutinizing your dogma and a personal attack ... which is what you did when you claimed it was your "privilege to tell ya that they really don’t believe it at all !" ... or your claim that I was "lying on you" and you finally acknowledged I was not "lying on you" because I had accurately represented your statements.

In examining your dogma, I never said you are not a believer or that you are not born again.

You not understanding the difference between scrutiny/examination of your dogma and a personal attack does not give you license to assert your outlandish accusations/personal attacks.

Didnt you have enough sense to realize when you criticize someone for judging you, that at the same time you are judging them ? Duh

intentionally obtuse.

Apparently you do not understand the difference between examination of your erroneous dogma and a personal attack.

... "law keeping faith" ... more of your erroneous dogma you sling because you just "say anything" in order to prop up your dogma (and then project your own behavior onto others who do not do what you claim).

Scripture is quite clear faith ≠ works.

Romans 4:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

you out here teaching a law keeping faith

nope, that erroneous misconception is wholly made up by you in the imagination of your vain reasoning.

Hope you plan on keeping every jot and title of it !

There is no need for me to "plan on keeping every jot and title" of your erroneous dogma because I actually believe what is written in Scripture:

Scripture is quite clear faith ≠ works.

Romans 4:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.



READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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[reneweddaybyday]

elect ungodly

another erroneous misconception from the keyboard of brightfame52 ... right up there with "law keeping faith" and "secretly righteous" and we "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" ...


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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[brightfame52]

To whom was God speaking in the verse?

Genesis 3:

14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
.

Who do you think ?

 

[brightfame52]

brightfame52 - Post 2545:

​

you are saying Christs death and blood was worthless.​

reneweddaybyday - Post 2601

​

... nope … those words have come solely from your keyboard.​

​

But that does not stop you from claiming I stated what only you have submitted.​

​

Your erroneous dogma has you deceiving yourself and making false claims against me.​

​

brightfame52 aka accuser of the brethren​

brightfame52 - Post 2630

​

Thats the conclusion I may draw on a fair basis​

reneweddaybyday - Post 2658

​

nope ... from Day 1 of you claiming I submitted those words I have denied your claim and you have provided no post submitted by me wherein I made the claim.​

​

Therefore, the only conclusion you may "draw on a fair basis" is that you are the only one on this thread who has submitted that statement.​

That is not the only conclusion.

You could conclude that "Christs death for them" was of inestimable value and those who reject God are without excuse for having squandered God's priceless grace ... which is what God's Word plainly states:


Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse


vs 18 – the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress, restrain, hinder. God reveals Himself to all mankind and some restrain the truth. They reject God and God allows them to reject Him.

vs 20 – those who reject are without excuse. They are inexcusable. The Lord Jesus Christ died for all sin of all mankind (all descendants of Adam). When a person rejects, that does not change the efficacy of the death, resurrection and ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ to your horrendous claim.
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If you say Christ died for the sins of those who yet die in their sins anyway, you say His death was worthless to save them from their sins.

 

[brightfame52]

nope ... world there is kosmos and, according to Thayer's, world is defined as the inhabitants of the world; particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race.





world there can be all descendants of Adam and it would not be universalism salvation ... it would be Scriptural salvation because God desires all men to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4).

The only reason all men do not come unto the knowledge of the truth is because some reject as they suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18).





I am not a universalist.

While I believe God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved (John 3:16-17), I believe those who reject God will ultimately be cast into the lake of fire.
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World means different things in scripture, for the most part in Salvation context it means Gentiles apart from jews.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

reneweddaybyday - Post 2622

​

What you refuse to acknowledge is that God Who justifies the ungodly imputes righteousness to the one who believes. The moment the person believes, he/she is no longer ungodly.​

brightfame52 - Post 2648

​

God imputed righteousness to them before they believed​

reneweddaybyday - Post 2670

that may be what your erroneous dogma tells you, but that is not what Scripture tells you​

Righteousness was imputed and Justification accomplished at the Cross

You are again missing the point. Please pay attention to the issue raised:

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth [present tense] on him that justifieth [present tense] the ungodly, his faith is counted [present tense] for righteousness.

The verbs are in the present tense which means that at the very moment the person believes, his/her faith is counted for righteousness ... at that very moment, God justifies the one who believes ... at that very moment the believer is no longer ungodly.

Please address the issue concerning the verb tense in Romans 4:5. They are all present tense.

if you want to deny the witness of the resurrection of Christ

I have pointed out to you that the verbs in Rom 4:5 are all in the present tense and you equate that to your fallacious belief that I "want to deny the witness of the resurrection of Christ".

Every sinner Christ died for, past, present and future, His resurrection declares them righteous

Since Scripture is clear that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world, it appears you are the one who embraces universalism.

counting the Blood of Christ as worthless

You really need to stop this thought from being typed out on your keyboard. Just repudiate the thought the moment the adversary whispers it to you.

repudiate = refuse to accept or be associated with

memorize this verse:

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Any time that erroneous thought is brought to your mind, refuse to entertain it and hold fast to the greatness of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

"If there are words for Him, then I don't have them.

You see my brain has not yet reached the point
where it could form a thought that could adequately
describe the greatness of my God.

And my lungs have not yet developed the ability to
release a breath with enough to agility to
breathe out the greatness of His love

And my voice, you see my voice is so inhibited.
Restrained by human limits,
that it's hard to even send the praise up.

You see if there are words for Him, then I don't have them.

My God,
His grace is remarkable
Mercies are innumerable
Strength is impenetrable
He is honorable, accountable, favorable,

He's unsearchable yet knowable
Indefinable yet approachable
Indescribable yet personal

He is beyond comprehension
Further than imagination
Constant through generations
King of every nation

But if there are words for Him, then I don't have them.

You see my words are few
In trying to capture the one true God
Using my vocabulary would never do

But I use words as an expression,
An expression of worship to a Savior
A Savior who is both worthy and deserving of my praise
So I use words.

My heart extols the Lord.
Blesses His name forever.
He has won my heart,
Captured my mind
And has bound them both together

He has defeated me in my rebellion
Conquered me in my sin
He has welcomed me into His presence
Completely invited me in
He has made Himself the object of my sight
Flooding me with mercies in the morning
Drowning me with grace in the night

But if there are words for Him, then I don't have them.

But what I do have is good news
For my God knew that manmade words
Would never do, the words are just tools
That we use to point to the truth

So He sent His Son Jesus Christ
As The Word, living proof

He is the image of the invisible God
The first born of all creation
For by Him all things were created
Giving nothingness formation
And by His words He sustains
In the power of His name

For He is before all things
And over all things He reigns
Holy is His name

So praise Him for His life
The way He persevered in strife
The humble Son of God becoming the perfect sacrifice

Praise Him for His death.
That He willingly stood in our place
That He lovingly endured the grave
That He battled our enemy
And on the third day rose in Victory.
He is everything that was promised

Praise Him as a risen King
Lift your voice and sing
For one day He will return for us
And we will finally be united with our Savior
For eternity, eternity.

So it's not just words that I proclaim
For my words point to The Word
And The Word has a name
Hope has a name
Joy has a name
Peace has a name
Love has a name
And that name is Jesus Christ

Praise His name FOREVER!"
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[brightfame52]

Scripture plainly tells us that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ...

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.



Scripture is also clear that God reveals Himself and some reject God ... not because they do not have faith, but because they suppress/restrain the truth in unrighteousness:

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse


Rom 1:18-20 tells us that God makes plain His eternal power and Godhead ... however, this truth is suppressed. The words "who hold" in vs 18 are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress; hold back; restrain. When the Word of God is spoken, the hearer restrains the truth from reaching his/her heart.

It is clear from vs 19 that God reveals His eternal power and Godhead and it is clear from vs 18 that it is the person who rejects God.
.

People Christ died for come to repentance because Christ died and was exalted to give them repentance Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Repentance means a change of mind , Christ as Saviour gives that from His exalted Throne !

 

[brightfame52]

more obfuscation on your part. The "natural mind of man" can "know and understand" Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

no in-depth spiritual insight is required by the "natural mind of man" to understand what is written in Gen 1:1. However, the "natural mind of man" that rejects what is written in Gen 1:1 will reap the consequence of his/her having suppressed the truth in unrighteousness.
.

The natural man doesnt receive, understand the scriptures, the Spiritual things of God, they are foolishness to him. 1 Cor 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Natural man is spiritually dead. I dont care how much he reads the bible

 

[reneweddaybyday]

brightfame52 - Post 2648

but he was justified before God, by the blood of Christ, before he became a believer​

reneweddaybyday - Post 2670

"before he became a believer", he was not "justified before God". Before he became a believer, he was ungodly.​

​

According to Scripture, a person is not simultaneously justified and ungodly.​

​

That your erroneous dogma considers a person to be simultaneously justified and ungodly is Scripturally unsound.​

​

You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error and hold to Scripture.​

Thats backwards, scripture teaches the elect are Justified while unbelieving ungodly enemies Rom 4:5

nope ... do not attribute that erroneous belief to Scripture

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth [present tense] on him that justifieth [present tense] the ungodly, his faith is counted [present tense] for righteousness.


The verbs are in the present tense which means that at the very moment the person believes, his/her faith is counted for righteousness ... at that very moment, God justifies the one who believes ... at that very moment the believer is no longer ungodly.
.

 

[brightfame52]

Scripture plainly tells us that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ...

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.



Scripture is also clear that God reveals Himself and some reject God ... not because they do not have faith, but because they suppress/restrain the truth in unrighteousness:

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse


Rom 1:18-20 tells us that God makes plain His eternal power and Godhead ... however, this truth is suppressed. The words "who hold" in vs 18 are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress; hold back; restrain. When the Word of God is spoken, the hearer restrains the truth from reaching his/her heart.

It is clear from vs 19 that God reveals His eternal power and Godhead and it is clear from vs 18 that it is the person who rejects God.
.

Christ died for the whole world of the saved.

 

[brightfame52]

John 1:12-13 does not support your claim

John 1:

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name


The Lord Jesus Christ clearly states that He gave power [the right, the privilege] to become the sons of God (vs 12) to those who did not reject Him (vs 11).


If they are already "born of God", they already are the sons of God. There would be no need for the Lord Jesus Christ to give them what they already have and are.
.

Until a person is born again, they are spiritually dead to God and the things of God. The Natural man cannot receive spiritually the words of God because they need to be spiritually discened 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You believe the spiritually dead natural man has spiritual discernment ?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

133+ pages into this thread and all we have is your keyboard propping up your erroneous dogma to support your claim.

I witness the Gospel

nope ... you have already told us you witness tulip which is calvinistic theology.

And now we're 136+ pages into this thread and you still have not addressed pertinent issues pointed out to you and which you refuse to acknowledge.

Rather than address the issues, you fall back to your standard cliché responses due to your inability to support your claims without manipulating Scripture.

Scripture is clear in telling us when a person is justified

Rom 5:1 could read differently

see? You do not believe Scripture! There is no need to manipulate Rom 5:1 to "read differently". Just read Scripture as is. Leave it alone and believe what God has written just as He has written it.

Scripture is clear in telling us when a person is justified:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ




The rest of your post is a botched up mess where you've included a comment made by you with a comment made by me in a quote as if you had made both statements:

brightfame52 said:

The ones who are already Justified by the death of Christ, are caused to be born again

if they are "already Justified", then they are already "born again" so there would be no need for them to be "caused to be born again".

Because your dogma is in error, you keep insisting upon the need for a person to be born again in order to believe the gospel by which they are born again.

That is why I keep asking you how many times under your erroneous dogma must a person be born again before he/she is really, truly, really, really, really, scout's honor born again.

You need to submit your posts properly so that it is clear as to who said what.

Quit acting like such a buffoon ... Learn how to properly submit posts in the Christian Chat forum. There's a "User2User Tech Support" forum where you can chat with other users who are much more adept at submitting posts than you are. Go there and find out what you need to do in order to submit a post without mangling the discussion.
.

 

[brightfame52]

It is wholly apparent that what you have been "studying for decades" is your erroneous dogma concerning Rom 5:10.





that I reject your erroneous dogma does not mean I "obviously don't believe" Scripture.





nope ... if they are reconciled, they are no longer enemies.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

enemies translated from Greek echthros – ("enemy"), implies irreconcilable hostility,

reconciled translated from Greek katallássō – decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.


The one who is justified by faith (Rom 5:1) is no longer an enemy because he/she is now reconciled. Both parties are now reconciled.


God (the Party of the first part) established His eternal purpose in eternity past ... God reconciled Himself to mankind through the death of His Son.


The believer (the party of the second part) is reconciled at the time he/she is justified. At that point, both parties (God and the believer) came to the same position (see definition of reconciled translated from Greek katallássō).


Under your erroneous dogma, a person is simultaneously irreconcilable and reconciled.
.

Yes Rom 5:10 plainly says that they were reconciled to God while being enemies by the Death of Christ. You dont believe plain scripture.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

brightfame52 ... there is absolutely no need to accuse me (or anyone else for that matter) of being "confused" when I (or anyone else) bring to your attention the contradictory statements you make. I am not confused ... I asked for clarification concerning your contradictory statements.

That the confusion lies in your erroneous dogma does not equal me or others being "confused" when we point out the error in your dogma.

A better word to describe you in these matters is deceived.

more obfuscation and avoidance tactics on your part.

Again, please address the issue raised:

You claimed in Post 910:​

"its no where in scripture where the believer in Christ is stated to be the ungodly or in a ungodly state".​

​

You claimed in Post 2514:​

"That’s false" when I told you "Once a person is justified, he/she is no longer "ungodly"."​

​

You hold opposing views because your statements conflict with each other ...

On the one hand you claim "no where in Scripture" is the believer "stated to be ungodly"; and

On the other hand you claim "That’s false" when you are told once a person is justified, he/she is no longer "ungodly"

​

He regenerates that sinner, at the point technically he is no more ungodly

... and this is what I have been telling you for months now, brightfame52.

I have been telling you, because a person Christ died for is Justified before God while ungodly, unregenerate. So you are confused.

... the one who is confused is the one who claims on the one hand:

He regenerates that sinner, at the point technically he is no more ungodly

and on the other hand, he claims a person is:

Justified before God, prior to being made a new creature by the new birth

regeneration = born again = new birth = new creature = justified = righteous

A believer is not justified "prior to being made a new creature by the new birth".



The rest of your Post 2691 is nothing but a botched up mess where you've again included a comment made by you with a comment made by me in a quote as if you made both statements:

brightfame52 said:

he understands that they were justified by the blood of Christ before they believed.

nope ... this is just more of your erroneous "born again in order to believe the gospel through which one is born again" dogma

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

... regeneration = born again.

Since, according to you, "God gives them new life which is regeneration, and with that Faith to believe the Gospel", you've got them born again (regeneration) in order to "believe the Gospel" by which they are born again (regeneration).

I dont believe in Gospel regeneration

You are avoiding the issue. Your claim is that "God gives them new life which is regeneration, and with that Faith to believe the Gospel".

You have the person born again (regeneration) ... then they believe the gospel.

Yet we read in Ephesians 1:13 that the believer hears ... then believes ... then is sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise (regeneration):

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise


Peter stated in Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.


Acts 15:7 and Ephesians 1:13 are in alignment with each other ... first hear then believe the gospel

Your dogma is not in alignment with Scripture.

The Spirit quickens whoever Christ died for

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


Thayer's clearly states that the word kosmos as used in John 1:29, John 3:16-17, 1 John 2:2 refers to definition #5.

From Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

5. the inhabitants of the world: ... particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race ... John 1:10, 29 ... John 3:16 ... 1 John 2:2​

That justified person is like any other ungodly sinner, born a spiritually dead sinner, but since their sins have been put away and they are legally before God Justified

False teaching. In our day and time a person is not justified until he/she is born again.

You have got multiple "regenerations" and yet, according to your Post 2470, "one is only born again once".

False accusation

nope ... we've got pages and pages on this thread alone which confirm your multiple "regenerations".

In the post to which I am responding, you stated:

they are regenerated, given a new spiritual life, and then God in His Providence either sends the Gospel to them or brings them under the preaching of the Gospel, and they hear it, and believe. ​

According to the above statement:

"they are regenerated" which is to be born again

then

"they hear" the gospel "and believe"

... according to Ephesians 1:13, once "they hear" the gospel "and believe", they are then sealed with that holy Spirit of promise which is to be born again.

You can claim "false accusation" all you want, but your words are plain and clear. You've got multiple regenerations because your erroneous dogma is not in alignment with Scripture.

The grace of God is never offered ... the Justified ungodly sinner will be quickened to life, and given the Gift of Faith, and then they receive

On the one hand you claim "The grace of God is never offered"

On the other hand you claim "they then receive"

So one "receive" what is never "offered" ... got it

whats Given by God is received, duh

fallacious distinction without a difference.

brightfame52, God does not force those who reject to receive "whats Given by God, duh".

You claim "those He died for" can "continue being ungodly sinners".

Yep, people Christ died for happen to be born ungodly sinners, and they live that way for years, decades, but Christ still died for them. Duh And having died for them, they are Justified before God.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


From Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

5. the inhabitants of the world: ... particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race ... John 1:10, 29 ... John 3:16 ... 1 John 2:2​

Yet Scripture tells us Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof (Rom 6:12).

Thats after they become a believer, after they are born again

So according to you, sin is okay with God as long as the person is not a believer???? Please provide chapter and verse for that lie from the pit.

So again I ask is it Scriptural to teach that we can "continue being ungodly sinners" or is it Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof ???

It depends on whether you are speaking before or after the New Birth has taken place.

According to Scripture ... you know, God's Word ... sin is never okay whether one is born again or not.

You might get away with your outlandish manipulation of Scripture at the other sites you post your erroneous dogma, but your dogma crumbles like a house of cards under the light of Scripture.

Maybe if you'd pick up and read that Bible "setting around collecting dust", you just might come to understand that the Word of God is more than just "words written on paper".


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.