Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Runningman]

FreeGrace2 said:
Hilarious claim since you flatly reject what Jesus SAID about believing and never perishing.

No lie. Of course you don't believe what Jesus said in John 5:24; that when a person becomes a believer they possess eternal life, and then in John 10:28 Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

You KNOW you don't believe any of that. Everyone has seen your posts and claims.

I said:
Those who believe are given eternal life.
Those given eternal life shall never perish.

If you really did, you would easily believe in eternal security.

Rather, you have a severe inability to connect the obvious dots. When Jesus gives believers, it is WHEN they believe, as John 5:24 very clearly says. Then, in 10:28, Jesus said those He gives eternal life, which are believers only, shall never perish.

So, from the MOMENT one believes, they POSSESS eternal life and shall never perish.

Which you don't believe. And have said so repeatedly.

Quote my posts where I ever said I don’t believe in eternal security for those who believe in the gospel and never lose faith. Go on. This should be good. I guess I’ll be waiting a while. 🎶

 

[FreeGrace2]

No. The they who did not believe are plural and the who that would betray Him is singular. It’s referring to different persons.

It's referring to a lot of persons. Including Judas, who was called the "son of perdition", and Jesus said it would have been better for His betrayer to have never been born. Sure doesn't describe believers.

Later in the chapter, Peter dispels all doubt about it by saying that he and the other remaining 11 believe Jesus is the Holy One of God.

Peter wasn't known as the brightest bulb on the block before receiving the Holy Spirit. He was impetuous, etc. And he didn't speak for everyone. He was giving his own opinion. In fact, none of the other disciples thought Judas wasn't a believer.

What was he? A scoundrel. An opportunist. God, in His omniscience, has always known who would betray Jesus if given the chance.

So God placed Judas WHEN and WHERE he was born so he HAD the opportunity.

Acts 17:26 - From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times (THE WHEN) in history and the boundaries (THE WHERE) of their lands.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Quote my posts where I ever said I don’t believe in eternal security for those who believe in the gospel and never lose faith.

Read my post again. That has never been the issue and you know it. You ADD "IF they never lose faith" yet you can't even defend your opinion from Scripture.

 

[Runningman]

Believers are recipients of eternal life, which is WHEN they believe and become believers.

What verse says in plain language that eternal life can be removed, revoked, etc.

Prove it. You can’t or you would have already quoted scripture.

Both John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 say that condemnation is for those who "have not believed".

If you’re going to refer to scripture then make sure you quote the entire verse because it isn’t like how you say it is.

John 3:18
18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

John 3:18 is referring to those who currently do and don’t believe, actively. John 3:16 proves it.

If you don't understand that "have not believed" means "have NEVER believed", you are having a very difficult time comprehending very plain language.

I’m an English teacher so I don’t have any problems understanding English. Maybe you should listen to what I am trying to tell you. Even better, pull out a concordance because it will confirm what I’m telling you.

 

[Runningman]

Read my post again. That has never been the issue and you know it. You ADD "IF they never lose faith" yet you can't even defend your opinion from Scripture.

Your accusations are false and misrepresentative of what I said. I represent myself fairly and truly.

 

[Runningman]

It's referring to a lot of persons. Including Judas, who was called the "son of perdition", and Jesus said it would have been better for His betrayer to have never been born. Sure doesn't describe believers.


Peter wasn't known as the brightest bulb on the block before receiving the Holy Spirit. He was impetuous, etc. And he didn't speak for everyone. He was giving his own opinion. In fact, none of the other disciples thought Judas wasn't a believer.

What was he? A scoundrel. An opportunist. God, in His omniscience, has always known who would betray Jesus if given the chance.

So God placed Judas WHEN and WHERE he was born so he HAD the opportunity.

Acts 17:26 - From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times (THE WHEN) in history and the boundaries (THE WHERE) of their lands.

Peter knew Judas so his version trumps your version. It can’t be said Judas was ever said to have been labeled an unbeliever in the Bible. In fact, he repented later.

Matthew 27
3When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. 4“I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.”

Though Judas did hang himself, Jesus said all sins would be forgiven men except one.

 

[Beckie]

The ones who are unbelievers are referring to the disciples who left him. The betrayer was Judas.

John 6
66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

If my husband betrayed me he left the marriage , no longer believing it the vows or me.
We will find out for sure some day ... i doubt it will matter then

 

[PennEd]

Peter knew Judas so his version trumps your version. It can’t be said Judas was ever said to have been labeled an unbeliever in the Bible. In fact, he repented later.

Matthew 27
3When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. 4“I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.”

Though Judas did hang himself, Jesus said all sins would be forgiven men except one.

Just seems like there is zero fruit in trying to show you the unbelievable amount of error and warped interpretation you have on vast sections of Scripture.

This post of yours is just par for the course.

 

[Runningman]

Just seems like there is zero fruit in trying to show you the unbelievable amount of error and warped interpretation you have on vast sections of Scripture.

This post of yours is just par for the course.

Thank you. No scripture to the contrary then.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Jesus never called Judas an unbeliever, He called Judas a betrayer and a devil. The unbelievers were those who turned back and no longer followed Him. Judas kept following Jesus. Peter also confirmed that he and the other 11 were believers. See for yourself below.

John 6
66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
67“You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.
68Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”
70Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71(He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

John 6: 64 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had knownfrom the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him.

he was included in the some of you who do not believe.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Ok, changed my mind, will stay up a little longer. Tomorrow's Saturday after all.

EG,

This statement seems to contradict itself: "Peter deliberately sinned. out of fear, He lacked faith in God at that time and for fear if his life denied his savior

The answer is no. Peter would not have went to hell. Because peter had eternal security."

Peter sinned out of fear, agreed. But if he lacked faith in God, as you said, then how could he have had salvation, let alone eternal security? I have bolded the two parts above in your statement I find confusing. Please clarify.

Every one agrees that Jesus is the Author and Perfecter of our Faith, and thus of our Salvation. Here, we are asking, what happens to those who fall away from Faith. The passage I showed earlier suggests they are lost.

Here's the Passage Again: "Take Up the Cross and Follow Him
24Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. 25For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 27For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works"

As for Peter, most probably he did not lose faith, and thus remained saved (justified), but only sinned out of fear. Internally, he always believed, but externally, he was afraid of persecution on that dark night of trials/tribulation/persecution.

God Bless.

Faith in god for salvation is not the same as having faith in God in every area of your life.

Many people trust God to save them, yet lack faith in other areas of their life. There lack of faith in those areas do not keep them from heaven

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

But Judas wasn’t called an unbeliever though. Wouldn’t you say that makes him saved?

He was called an unbeliever..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Thank you!

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The ones who are unbelievers are referring to the disciples who left him. The betrayer was Judas.

John 6
66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

Both were of the people who jesus said who did not believe

There are some of YOU who do not believe (for jesus knew who….

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

What did Jesus mean by “it would be better for him if he had not been born?” That doesn’t refute anything I had just quoted from the Bible.





Believers will never perish. If i understand you correctly, you believe those who stop believing have eternal life too. Sorry, but that theory isn’t found in scripture.

If he will be in heaven, then it is great that he was born. For he has eternal life

It is because he will nto be in heaven, that it would be better if he was never born.

 

[Runningman]

John 6: 64 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had knownfrom the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him.

he was included in the some of you who do not believe.

I disagree because Peter said Judas is a believer in Jesus as the Holy One of God. No one ever called Judas an unbeliever, not even one time.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I disagree because Peter said Judas is a believer in Jesus as the Holy One of God. No one ever called Judas an unbeliever, not even one time.

I believe what Jesus said

he said there are some of YOU who do not believe. And he named the betrayer.

Jesus knows Judas A lot better than Peter

 

[Runningman]

If he will be in heaven, then it is great that he was born. For he has eternal life

It is because he will nto be in heaven, that it would be better if he was never born.

Jesus said Judas would have eternal life. That’s conclusive. Why did you insist Judas was an unbeliever and not going to heaven when the Bible says the exact opposite? I can’t understand that.

 

[Runningman]

I believe what Jesus said

he said there are some of YOU who do not believe. And he named the betrayer.

Jesus knows Judas A lot better than Peter

I believe what Jesus said and He was referring to the disciples who left Him. Also, look at the Greek. The word “who” in that verse is singular.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Jesus said Judas would have eternal life. That’s conclusive. Why did you insist Judas was an unbeliever and not going to heaven when the Bible says the exact opposite? I can’t understand that.

Please show me where jesus said judas has eternal life