Christians Are Not Sinners
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I believe that one is accusing me and a user named @ForestGreenCook of not being Christian and liars.
It’s kind normalized for people to attack others like that here, but honestly I’m happy. We can expect some attacks and slander for following Christ and will be rewarded for it.
However, last I heard, I could be wrong about this, but accusing someone of not being a Christian is against forum rules.
It’s kind normalized for people to attack others like that here, but honestly I’m happy. We can expect some attacks and slander for following Christ and will be rewarded for it.
However, last I heard, I could be wrong about this, but accusing someone of not being a Christian is against forum rules.
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Show me ANY verse that says that those who stop believing lose salvation. I'm not asking for specific wording, but CLEAR wording.
While you are at it, consider these 2 verses that REFUTE your opinion.
John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
So, from both verses, who, exactly, will BE condemned? Those who "have not believed".
Has a "former believer" ever believed? Yes. So your theory is refuted.
Once belief, no condemnation. The same message as John 5:24. With belief comes eternal life, and they shall never perish.
While you are at it, consider these 2 verses that REFUTE your opinion.
John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
So, from both verses, who, exactly, will BE condemned? Those who "have not believed".
Has a "former believer" ever believed? Yes. So your theory is refuted.
Once belief, no condemnation. The same message as John 5:24. With belief comes eternal life, and they shall never perish.
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Fair enough. We all have our fair share of disagreements. There’s a lot of diversity in the Bible discussion forum and I think that helps make discussions more interesting and challenges us to dig deeper in the Bible and look harder at what we think we know.
One just needs an open heart and mind to honestly accept what the Bible says. It’s my sole intention to do that and I believe others are trying to do the same.
There’s even at least one example in the Bible (that I’m aware of) of the disciples disagreeing and one or two of Paul and another Christian disagreeing.
One just needs an open heart and mind to honestly accept what the Bible says. It’s my sole intention to do that and I believe others are trying to do the same.
There’s even at least one example in the Bible (that I’m aware of) of the disciples disagreeing and one or two of Paul and another Christian disagreeing.
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FreeGrace2 said:
Show me ANY verse that says that those who stop believing lose salvation. I'm not asking for specific wording, but CLEAR wording.
While you are at it, consider these 2 verses that REFUTE your opinion.
John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believedin the name of God’s one and only Son.
2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
So, from both verses, who, exactly, will BE condemned? Those who "have not believed".
Has a "former believer" ever believed? Yes. So your theory is refuted.
Once belief, no condemnation. The same message as John 5:24. With belief comes eternal life, and they shall never perish.
OK, so just ignore the very clear verses about who will be condemned. It is about who hasn't ever believed.
Rom 11 is about service to God, which the Jews were very proud of.
I asked for a verse that clearly teaches that ceasing to believe results in loss of salvation, and Rom 11 has no such verse.
There is nothing in my post here that you can refute.
Show me ANY verse that says that those who stop believing lose salvation. I'm not asking for specific wording, but CLEAR wording.
While you are at it, consider these 2 verses that REFUTE your opinion.
John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believedin the name of God’s one and only Son.
2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
So, from both verses, who, exactly, will BE condemned? Those who "have not believed".
Has a "former believer" ever believed? Yes. So your theory is refuted.
Once belief, no condemnation. The same message as John 5:24. With belief comes eternal life, and they shall never perish.
OK, so just ignore the very clear verses about who will be condemned. It is about who hasn't ever believed.
Rom 11 is about service to God, which the Jews were very proud of.
I asked for a verse that clearly teaches that ceasing to believe results in loss of salvation, and Rom 11 has no such verse.
There is nothing in my post here that you can refute.
FreeGrace2 said:
Show me ANY verse that says that those who stop believing lose salvation. I'm not asking for specific wording, but CLEAR wording.
While you are at it, consider these 2 verses that REFUTE your opinion.
John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believedin the name of God’s one and only Son.
2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
So, from both verses, who, exactly, will BE condemned? Those who "have not believed".
Has a "former believer" ever believed? Yes. So your theory is refuted.
Once belief, no condemnation. The same message as John 5:24. With belief comes eternal life, and they shall never perish.
Sure. But if you think there are any, why not just quote them? Why are you just holding back?
Show me ANY verse that says that those who stop believing lose salvation. I'm not asking for specific wording, but CLEAR wording.
While you are at it, consider these 2 verses that REFUTE your opinion.
John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believedin the name of God’s one and only Son.
2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
So, from both verses, who, exactly, will BE condemned? Those who "have not believed".
Has a "former believer" ever believed? Yes. So your theory is refuted.
Once belief, no condemnation. The same message as John 5:24. With belief comes eternal life, and they shall never perish.
Sure. But if you think there are any, why not just quote them? Why are you just holding back?
You were speaking about myself and @ForestGreenCook who hasn't even bee a part of this discussion as far as I know.
In post #258 , EDENgate said "They're not Christian. They're lying. " Using the "they" pronoun, you're referring to a plural number of persons that were just previously mentioned; that is myself and FGC.
How about you just own it? There's no honor or respect in your publicly shameless unChristian behavior.
In post #258 , EDENgate said "They're not Christian. They're lying. " Using the "they" pronoun, you're referring to a plural number of persons that were just previously mentioned; that is myself and FGC.
How about you just own it? There's no honor or respect in your publicly shameless unChristian behavior.
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I've shown you repeatedly the verse(s) you're asking for. I've even gone as far as to show that the context and word usage that you're misunderstanding is resulting in you misapplying them to inappropriate contexts and false narratives.
This discussion has meandered a bit, but read the context around John 5, it's about about those who are resurrected to live:
John 5:29
29and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.
This discussion has also touched a bit on when the gift of eternal life is yours:
Luke 18:29,30
29“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”
It's also went a bit into OSAS:
1 Corinthians 15:1,2
1Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
Hebrews 3:12-14
12See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.
Everything I am showing you has refuted your assertions again, and again, and again. I know you aren't going to accept it, but all I can do is just plant seeds of truth. I am just glad you have faith even though you don't seem to understand it. I hope you never lose faith, but I'm Biblical and confident. I guess we just will have to disagree. Meanwhile, I'm charging forward.
This discussion has meandered a bit, but read the context around John 5, it's about about those who are resurrected to live:
John 5:29
29and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.
This discussion has also touched a bit on when the gift of eternal life is yours:
Luke 18:29,30
29“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”
It's also went a bit into OSAS:
1 Corinthians 15:1,2
1Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
Hebrews 3:12-14
12See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.
Everything I am showing you has refuted your assertions again, and again, and again. I know you aren't going to accept it, but all I can do is just plant seeds of truth. I am just glad you have faith even though you don't seem to understand it. I hope you never lose faith, but I'm Biblical and confident. I guess we just will have to disagree. Meanwhile, I'm charging forward.
No, I've shown you WHY the verses don't say what you say.
Many people in deep error are confident. Means nothing. The Bible doesn't say what you say. That's the problem.
Your biggest error was when you addressed John 10:28 and COMPLETELY IGNORED the KEY phrase: "and they shall never perish".
Why did you ignore that phrase? That phrase goes with "I give them eternal life". So Jesus was teaching the result of being given eternal life.
And Jesus was clear about WHEN a person receives eternal life in John 5:24. It is WHEN a person becomes a believer.
You are unable to prove anything else. You only think you can.
Many people in deep error are confident. Means nothing. The Bible doesn't say what you say. That's the problem.
Your biggest error was when you addressed John 10:28 and COMPLETELY IGNORED the KEY phrase: "and they shall never perish".
Why did you ignore that phrase? That phrase goes with "I give them eternal life". So Jesus was teaching the result of being given eternal life.
And Jesus was clear about WHEN a person receives eternal life in John 5:24. It is WHEN a person becomes a believer.
You are unable to prove anything else. You only think you can.
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sigh
he was talking to me and obviously meant the forum in general
the problem is YOU trying to control the conversation.
no one is owning a false interpretation but you are free to do so. what else is new? shrugs
perhaps own your own desire to take over here and make yourself judge and jury
this thread, as I already stated, has gone way past it's best before date
take a chill pill
he was talking to me and obviously meant the forum in general
the problem is YOU trying to control the conversation.
no one is owning a false interpretation but you are free to do so. what else is new? shrugs
perhaps own your own desire to take over here and make yourself judge and jury
this thread, as I already stated, has gone way past it's best before date
take a chill pill
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P
just going to give a little perhaps unwanted advice here
this op is no longer on topic
it has been hijacked by someone accusing anyone who disagrees with him.
why give someone who has no interest in the op anymore attention? now we are into false accusing and demands
seriously? seems someone thinks 'they are all that'
smh
outta here again but just came by, saw what was going on, and spoke up
I would just let the angry people duke it out among themselves
this op is no longer on topic
it has been hijacked by someone accusing anyone who disagrees with him.
why give someone who has no interest in the op anymore attention? now we are into false accusing and demands
seriously? seems someone thinks 'they are all that'
smh
outta here again but just came by, saw what was going on, and spoke up
I would just let the angry people duke it out among themselves
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