Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

Chester · Nov 1, 2022

I didn't say hearing and following is a requirement for receiving eternal life. Verse 27 doesn't make any kind of conditions that I can see?

So we agree that the text says that the sheep are hearing Jesus and are following Him.
Now another question: Does the text say that these sheep (that are hearing and following him) are being given eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one can pluck them out of the Father's hand?

John 10:27,28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand

FreeGrace2 · Nov 1, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:
Sure it does. Does the text say that hearing and following is a requirement for receiving eternal life?

If your answer will be "yes", then please provide the EXACT words that form the conditional clause that you are reading in the verse.

Chester said:

Your posts appear to disagree with me across the board. Have I misunderstood you?

Right. And that isn't the debate about eternal security.

Yes. Which has been my point all along.

GRACE_ambassador · Nov 1, 2022

ResidentAlien said:

Of Course, it is not "IF" but Yes, we Definitely know, According To
Scriptures (Tit 3:5) that (not sheep), But individuals Baptized By
The Holy Spirit's Work (#3 in God's OPERATION), Into The Body Of
Christ, Today, Under God's Amazing Grace And Mercy, Are the
Truly Saved Of God! Why would Christ, At His Bema Seat (below...),
Judge us for our "good works"?

Has not this "been answered Several Times" in 1700 posts?
( Or, maybe not

)

Ok, ONE more time = "rewards," Correct? Why is it so difficult
to "Take God At His Plain Word"? Everything has to be "re-
interpreted to a Vastly Different meaning"?

A humble six-year-old child would correctly quiz: "IF God
DIDN'T mean what He Said, why didn't He Say What He
Meant"???:

In God's Dispensation Of Grace/Mystery (Rom - Phm)

"Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and
every man Shall Receive his own reward according to his
own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye
are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

According to The Grace of God which is given unto me, as a
wise masterbuilder, I have laid The Foundation, and another
buildeth Thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth
Thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than That is
laid, Which Is Jesus Christ.

Now IF any man build upon This Foundation gold, silver,
precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work
Shall Be Made Manifest: for The Day Shall Declare it,
because it Shall Be Revealed by fire; and the fire shall
try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon,
he Shall Receive a reward.

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss:
BUT he himself Shall Be Saved; yet so as by fire."
(1Co 3:8-15)
-------------------------------

Sounds Plain And Clear to me! You Precious friend?

Grace, Peace, And JOY In The LORD JESUS CHRIST,
And In And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II).

AndrewMorgan · Nov 1, 2022

PennEd said:

I'm somewhat baffled by the idea that people can tell others' condition by their works. Is this really true? Even Judas Iscariot seemed genuine.
After Jesus pretty much identified him at a meal, His disciples apparently didn't suspect him.

GRACE_ambassador · Nov 1, 2022

AndrewMorgan said:

Especially Since:

ONLY God Knows the heart of Every man! Acts_15:8; Romans_8:27
[Borrowed from God's ETERNAL Assurance study...]

Correct?

[Relationship/ETERNAL Life vs fellowship/rewards]:
Grace, Peace, And JOY In The LORD JESUS CHRIST,
And In And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II).

Chester · Nov 1, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

Now we are getting somewhere. I think we agree on two things that the text says:

(1) The sheep are hearing Jesus and are following Him
(2) These sheep (that are hearing and following him) are being given eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one can pluck them out of the Father's hand.

I agree with those two statements and I think you said you agree with them as well. So I guess we agree on what the text says then.
I am satisfied to leave it with that if you are.

John 10:27,28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand

FreeGrace2 · Nov 1, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:
Sure it does. Does the text say that hearing and following is a requirement for receiving eternal life?

If your answer will be "yes", then please provide the EXACT words that form the conditional clause that you are reading in the verse.

Your posts appear to disagree with me across the board. Have I misunderstood you?

Chester said:

Except . . . . . . in #2 above, they aren't "being given eternal life" as some kind of on-going gift that "keeps on giving". In fact, I always include John 5:24 because that verse says that "whosoever believes HAS (possesses) eternal life." Not that they "keep getting it".

Eternal life is an immediate gift. Given all at once. Believers HAVE it. They aren't "getting it" throughout their life.

Just wanted to clarify that point.

I added the word "believers" to make the verses very clear.

ZNP · Nov 1, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

Because some on this forum are claiming that they also no longer have the sin nature, that is why it is relevant. Because many churches are influenced by FreeMasons which include the Jesuits and they push their brand of OSAS which is that once they are saved they are "free from sin".

Snacks · Nov 1, 2022

ZNP said:

I wasn’t sure why you posted about freemasons but now I understand. And the people who proclaim to be sinless are very cunning and crafty about not saying it forthright.

ZNP · Nov 1, 2022

Snacks said:

This person's response was utterly abominable. My post said that FreeMasons worship Satan and he muses if Jesus was a Freemason. This is on par with Korah.

Runningman · Nov 1, 2022

This verse debunks OSAS:

1 Corinthians 15:1,2
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Notice it says salvation is dependent upon holding firmly to the word preached which is the gospel. Not holding firmly to the gospel, i.e., losing faith is believing in vain.

ResidentAlien · Nov 2, 2022

Runningman said:

This verse debunks OSAS:

1 Corinthians 15:1,2
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Notice it says salvation is dependent upon holding firmly to the word preached which is the gospel. Not holding firmly to the gospel, i.e., losing faith is believing in vain.

Tons of scriptures like this which eternal security folks are selectively blind to.

ZNP · Nov 2, 2022

ResidentAlien said:

This reminds me of a baby, it receives the human life but if you don't feed that baby and take care of the baby it dies.

XavierJesusLovesIndia · Nov 2, 2022

Runningman said:

This verse debunks OSAS:

1 Corinthians 15:1,2
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Notice it says salvation is dependent upon holding firmly to the word preached which is the gospel. Not holding firmly to the gospel, i.e., losing faith is believing in vain.

Good one.

Runningman · Nov 2, 2022

XavierJesusLovesIndia said:

I know someone is going to reinterpret 1 Corinthians 15:1,2 to mean something else, but there’s one part of it that isn’t going to be changed no matter what. It’s the possibility of believing in the gospel in vain. In OSAS, one can’t believe in vain, but Paul clearly said otherwise.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 2, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:
Who cares about what freemasons believe and claim? How and why is that relevant to this Christian chat forum?

ZNP said:

Do the Berean thing. Ask them for verses that SAY what they SAY, and see where it goes.

Whatever verses they might quote certainly won't SAY what they SAY.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 2, 2022

Snacks said:

That is why the Berean study method is so helpful. Just ask them for any verse that SAYS what they SAY.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 2, 2022

Runningman said:

No it doesn't. It is your misunderstanding of the verses that are the problem with your understanding of eternal security.

The bold words "if you hold firmly" in the Greek is one word, which means "possess". So Paul is referring to HAVING salvation through faith in Christ.

Second set of bold words "in vain" in the Greek means "without reason".

Faith requires two things: an object upon which to believe in, and a purpose for believing in the object. Without both the object and purpose being what is required biblically, whatever faith one has is "in vain".

The object of saving faith is the Lord Jesus Christ. John 20:31
The purpose of saving faith is salvation itself.

So, those who believe that Jesus was a man and lived in Palestine 2,000 years ago and was a good teacher DO NOT have saving faith. They aren't even close to having saving faith.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 2, 2022

ResidentAlien said:

Read post 1758 for illumination.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 2, 2022

ZNP said:

Really? You are comparing or equating salvation to a baby?? Why in the world?

So you think your salvation is maintained by regular feedings?

So, what verse informs you of what you SAY? iow, quote a verse that SAYS what you SAY.

Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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