Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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Nope, I am not the judge, Jesus will take care of that.
But what I need to see is that the works confess a faith in Christ rather than deny it. This is called discernment.
How many have been damaged by people professing to believe in Jesus only to then see abominable works by these ones. If they knew the truth as soon as they see the abominable works they would realize they were false believers and that we should not be surprised that Satan would disguise himself as an angel of light.
For example if I only listen to Fauci I get one story of a saint being unfairly persecuted for trying to save the world. If however, I also look at his works I get a picture of a liar whose lies have cost many lives.
But what I need to see is that the works confess a faith in Christ rather than deny it. This is called discernment.
How many have been damaged by people professing to believe in Jesus only to then see abominable works by these ones. If they knew the truth as soon as they see the abominable works they would realize they were false believers and that we should not be surprised that Satan would disguise himself as an angel of light.
For example if I only listen to Fauci I get one story of a saint being unfairly persecuted for trying to save the world. If however, I also look at his works I get a picture of a liar whose lies have cost many lives.
If a person is saved and walks with the Lord for ten years, then falls away for five years, then returns and walks with the Lord for 15 years, then falls away again for ten years, and finally returns and walks with Lord until his death, was he saved to begin with? How do you know which salvation, if any, was genuine?
No you can't. There are many unbelievers who live better lives than some Christians.
btw, where do you get the idea that believers are to figure out who is saved? For those who are viewed as believers, we need to be aware of what we observe. And as Paul noted in 1 Cor 5, if they stray, stay away from them.
9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—
10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.
11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
Paul clearly did not mean immoral unbelievers, per v.9-10.
btw, v.11 is wrongly translated. The words "who claims to be a brother" is in the passive mood, which doesn't mean they are claiming that, but they are viewed as a believer. iow, their behavior has been enough to view them as saved.
btw, where do you get the idea that believers are to figure out who is saved? For those who are viewed as believers, we need to be aware of what we observe. And as Paul noted in 1 Cor 5, if they stray, stay away from them.
9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—
10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.
11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
Paul clearly did not mean immoral unbelievers, per v.9-10.
btw, v.11 is wrongly translated. The words "who claims to be a brother" is in the passive mood, which doesn't mean they are claiming that, but they are viewed as a believer. iow, their behavior has been enough to view them as saved.
The Bible doesn't teach that. In fact, Paul made it clear that believers always have a choice to make, about to whom to obey as slaves.
Romans 6-
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. CHOICE!
13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. CHOICE!
14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! CHOICE!
16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? CHOICE!
Paul was addressing believers here.
Romans 6-
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. CHOICE!
13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. CHOICE!
14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! CHOICE!
16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? CHOICE!
Paul was addressing believers here.
This isn't any of our business. This describes was some believers do anyway.
The single point is this: when a person understands who Jesus is and what He did for them on the cross and trusts what He did on the cross for them, He gives them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
How can you argue with with, given what Jesus has said about believers in Jn 5:24 and 10:28?
The single point is this: when a person understands who Jesus is and what He did for them on the cross and trusts what He did on the cross for them, He gives them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
How can you argue with with, given what Jesus has said about believers in Jn 5:24 and 10:28?
Something that helped me here was that Jesus seeks and saves lost sheep. There are no instances where goats are transformed into sheep.
The wheat and tares is instructive in that we are unable to distinguish one from the other. The disciples didn't know it was Judas who would betray Christ. Paul didn't know Demos would fall away. And in 1 John, the apostle says he only knew some weren't of them when they left. If apostles couldn't anticipate these things, few are likely to.
The wheat and tares is instructive in that we are unable to distinguish one from the other. The disciples didn't know it was Judas who would betray Christ. Paul didn't know Demos would fall away. And in 1 John, the apostle says he only knew some weren't of them when they left. If apostles couldn't anticipate these things, few are likely to.
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I get that idea from Jesus in Matthew
Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, you will recognize them by their fruits.
I get the idea from Jesus in Luke
Luke 6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
I get the idea from Jesus in Mark
Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
I get the idea from Jesus in John
John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
I get the idea from John
1John 4:1-3 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you will know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God.
I get the idea from Paul
1Timothy 6:3-4 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing.
I get the idea from James
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
I get the idea from Peter
2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
I get the idea from Jude
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, you will recognize them by their fruits.
I get the idea from Jesus in Luke
Luke 6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
I get the idea from Jesus in Mark
Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
I get the idea from Jesus in John
John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
I get the idea from John
1John 4:1-3 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you will know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God.
I get the idea from Paul
1Timothy 6:3-4 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing.
I get the idea from James
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
I get the idea from Peter
2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
I get the idea from Jude
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.