You may want to read 1 Cor 12 again, since you obviously have no concept of "Giftings" according to Scripture.
Speaking in Tongues
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You may want to read 1 Cor 12 again, since you obviously have no concept of "Giftings" according to Scripture.
P
Polar
Guest
did you miss the part where I said I also speak in tongues?
quit the drama. no one cares
The Last Word is the First Word
“IAM Alpha and Omega,” says the Lord God, Who Is and Was and Is to come—the Almighty."
When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. But He placed His right hand on me and said, “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, the Living One. I was dead, and behold, now I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of Death and of Hades."
Of course the signs and wonders began FIRST thru the Apostles = this is a Bible No-Brainer
"And while they were gathered together, Jesus commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem,
but wait for the Promise of the Father, which you have heard Me discuss.
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 1:4-5
L
Locoponydirtman
Guest
Why are you bringing this John MacArthur into this discussion?
This post makes no sense.
Ya know what? Never mind. Dont answer.
I'll answer anyway.
You apparently missed my last sentence: "Just pointing out your interesting logic."
And if you still don't get it, I was simply countering ResidentAlien's post where he was trying to diss tongues by pointing out a guy who speaks in tongues but has published a lot of books, as though publishing lots of books proves the guy's real motive ($$$).
Hope that helps.
8 For to one is given through the Ruach a word of wisdom, to another a word of knowledge according to the same Ruach, 9 to another faith by the same Ruach, to another gifts of healings by the one Ruach, 10 to another workings of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Ruach activates all these things, distributing to each person individually as He wills.
nowhere does the Gift of Tongues = Miracle, but both Miracles and Speaking in Tongues come from the Holy Spirit.
L
Locoponydirtman
Guest
I don't consider speaking in tongues to be miraculous, but it IS spiritual.
My point was Max Lucado is a professional Christian. There's nothing wrong with publishing books and getting compensated for it. But there's a point at which a person stops being a Christian who publishes Christian books and starts being a professional Christian whose entire life is defined by making a living off off Christianity.
You’re trying to apply the same logic as your first post I responded to. Just because someone “makes a living off of Christianity“ does not mean everything he teaches is false.
Maybe not everything, but there's more of an incentive to write whatever sells—true or false. They don't write because they have anything of value to communicate but because they must to keep the money coming in. Their loyalty is to their publisher (not God), who tells them what to write.
I'm not applying "logic" to anything. These are just the facts.
my loyalties surround facts and truths.
i am from a yiddish family who have had access to the Tanach at any given time. it has always had 22 Books and those 22 Books cover everything the 37 Books Jerome turned them into, with exception to the Maccabees, Tobit, and a couple of Catholic Books.
God created 22 Books!
the ancient Hebrews had 22 Scrolls that God personally gave unto them.
if God wanted 22 Books, who are we to say 37 is better or correct?
that [[is not]] what God chose to give unto us. He gave us 22 Books!
Whatever. I don't have a clue what you're point is and by now I'm beyond caring. Have a nice day.
Your comment about queasiness reminds me of an experience I had many years ago. A friend enjoyed collecting comic books as a hobby. I decided to tag along when they went in search of a specific edition. Wow. Were my "eyes" opened that day. As I trailed behind my friend I began feeling a slight feeling of queasiness. The further into the store we went the stronger the feeling got, when at last it began to effect my ability to breathe normally. It was at that point that revelation hit me like a cold bucket of water. Peering directly at me were "demonic fallen angels." There was depictions of them on comic book covers in every direction. I decided at that moment to leave the store and wait outside. The instant I exited the store my breathing returned to normal. It was at that point that I understood that demons/fallen angels were actually on the premises in the spiritual realm.
Many artists who do this kind of work undoubtedly think the ideas are the result of creative juices flowing from no where other than themselves. They are wrong. And no doubt would be shocked to realize their thoughts are being manipulated by the enemy. Satan and his crew want God's intended children to idolize them rather than the God that loved and died to save them. They draw the least suspecting into their web of deceit in ways many do not understand in an effort to take as many with them into the pits of hell because of their hatred for God.
It is through the gifts of the Spirit that God reveals many of the tactics of the enemy. And that is why, as you said, that the enemy fights so hard against the truth that spiritual gifts are still in operation today. The more people he keeps blind the more damage he can instill in them, and also limit them from helping those they love. I for one, as the story conveys, did not understand the connection between actual fallen angels and their influence in the case of comic books. It was only after experiencing the gift of discerning spirits that my eyes were open that day. Most often, opening doors to the spiritual realm happens through seemingly "innocent" ways.
I believe wholeheartedly that many have been, and will continue to be drawn back from the brink of hell through the gifts of the Spirit that God so graciously gave to the church for that exact purpose.
just remember the facts:
the Church Fathers tells us the Gifts will be here until that [which is PREFECT] which is when we see God face to face.
since that's not happened yet, Perfect has not come.
the debate is Tongues ends when that which is PERFECT has come.
i tend to use resources closest to the source like the Church Fathers who chose to write about this.
Irenaeus:
As therefore, when that which is perfect is come, we shall not see another Father, but Him who we now desire to see [12]
Tertullian:
refers to the visible manifestation of Jesus
Clement of Alexander:
to' teaelov is the believer's state when he see's God
Origen:
combines Verse 12 with 10 when we see Jesus [face to face]
Eusebius:
The apostle thought it necessary that the prophetic Gifts should continue in all the Church until the final Coming of Jesus
Archelaus:
"the perfect" is Jesus
Methodius:
the return of Christ and events associated with it
Ambrose:
when we are face to face with God
Jerome:
when we see the Glory of the Lord
Leo the Great:
when we see God as He really is
so as we see, these Church Fathers tells us that the PERFECT TO COME is when we see God [face to face].
none of us have seen God face to face so we can deduct that Speaking in Tongues is still active today.