Thoughts on Evolution and its compatibility/incompatibility with Christianity?

[AndrewMorgan]

I can't see how Christianity can be compatible with Evolution - for the following reasons:-
"Evolution happened" over millions of years. The Bible says that Adam and Eve were created "in one fell swoop". No mention of them coming from a lineage of evolving creatures.
Many people claim to think Adam and Eve were metaphors for the beginnings of Mankind generally. This seems in no way to hold water. The account of creation may seem to have a fairy-tale, metaphoric quality. Yet taking a look at the account gives a different kind of idea.
There are specific details. Eg - Adam had a son when he was 130 years old. There is mention of specific rivers. Adam died when he was 930. If these are metaphors - What did they mean? Also, the Adam and Eve account is not in isolation. It carries on in the same vein. The story continues with Adam's sons, then his grandsons and through generations. If it's a metaphor, at what point did it become literal, if at all? Is Noah a metaphor?...or Abraham?...Jesus?!
Then there's the idea of sin. If Adam were an evolving creature, did he reach the state of manhood, at which he reached the state of accountability? If so, are animals on the same road of development to accountable creatures? Will they need a savior? Will it be Jesus or another?
What about the "equivalency between Adam and Jesus - "the second Adam"?

 

[Magenta]

Are you proposing that the earth did not exist before God created light?

The text states the earth was formless and void before God said, 'let there be light'.

Your assuming that the earth was created after God said, 'let there be light', which it was not.

There is a sequential order that God established in Genesis 1 and God did that for a reason.

Mankind arrives on the sixth day, mankind is late in the chronology and that is for a reason also.

I cannot interpret Genesis in a literal way otherwise, I will miss some of the revelation of the Christ.

Some people even claim that Earth pre-existed Genesis 1:1

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

They say that because Genesis 1:2 says, the earth was formless and empty

However, that does not mean that it was there before creation

How they arrive at such a conclusion is baffling, to be sure.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Some books those who are interested in the subject might like. In the beginning by Dr. Brown.

"In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - Scientific Only"

https://www.amazon.in/Beginning-Compelling-Evidence-Creation-Scientific/dp/1878026054

Dr. Brown is a convinced Creation Scientist and he makes a case from the scientific evidence.

Evolution: a Theory in Crisis and Evolution: Still a Theory in Crisis by Dr. Denton. OE/ID book.

https://www.amazon.in/Evolution-Theory-Crisis-Michael-Denton/dp/091756152X
https://www.amazon.in/Evolution-Theory-Crisis-Michael-Denton/dp/1936599325 (2016)

Here's a brief excerpt from the first book: http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/AstroPhysicalSciences29.html

"68. Old DNA, Bacteria, Proteins, and Soft Tissue?
DNA. When an animal or plant dies, its DNA begins decomposing.a Before 1990, almost no one believed that DNA could last 10,000 years.b This limit was based on measuring DNA disintegration rates in well-preserved specimens of known age, such as Egyptian mummies. DNA has now been reported in supposedly a 400,000-year-old hominin femur from Spain,c 17-million-year-old magnolia leaves,d and 11-to-425-million-year-old salt crystals.e Dozens of plants and animals have left DNA in sediments claimed to be 30,000–400,000 years old.f DNA fragments have been found in the scales of a “200-million-year-old” fossilized fishg and possibly in “80-million-year-old” dinosaur bones buried in a coal bed.h Frequently,

DNA is found in insects and plants encased in amber samples, assumed to be 25–120-million years old.i
These discoveries have forced evolutionists to reexamine the 10,000-year limit.j They now claim that DNA can be preserved longer if conditions are dryer, colder, and freer of oxygen, bacteria, and background radiation. However, measured disintegration rates of DNA, under these more ideal conditions, do not support this claim.k

Bacteria. Even living bacterial spores have been recovered, cultured, and identified in intestines of bees preserved in supposedly 25–40-million-year-old amber.l The same bacteria, Bacillus, have been found alive in rocks allegedly 250 million and 650-million years old.m Italian scientists have recovered 78 different types of dormant, but living, bacteria in two meteorites that are presumed to be 4.5-billion years old.n Anyone who accepts such old ages for these rocks must also accept that some bacteria are practically immortal—an obviously absurd conclusion. (Because these “old” bacteria and the various DNA specimens closely match those of today, little evolution has occurred.)

Proteins and Soft Tissue. Evolutionists face similar contradictions with proteins,o soft tissue,p blood compounds ,q and other complex organic matterr preserved in dinosaur bones.s Researchers were shocked to find soft tissue in eight pieces of a dinosaur’s toe, rib, hip, leg, and claw.t Even dinosaur skin (from a hadrosaur) has been recovered and tested.u As with DNA, it is ridiculous to believe these remains have lasted 65–150-million years.v"

 

[montana123]

If there is one error that more than any other has led to multitudes abandoning Christianity first in the West, and in much of the world after that, arguably it is the false theory of evolution.

It may be interesting to note that in Communist gulags and Concentration Camps where they persecuted and tortured Christians, they did not teach false Marxist economics; rather, they promoted Darwin's Theory of Evolution.

Source: http://archives.sspx.org/against_sound_bites/devolution_of_evolution.htm

"In 1947, Bishop O’Gara was imprisoned by the Chinese Communists and wrote from his prison cell regarding the Marxist indoctrination of his flock. A number of them were “hopeless” to the new regime and were executed. Those considered “salvageable” had to attend a week-long class as the new “People’s Republic” was born. His letter described the retraining classes. He does not refer to Marxist philosophy, redistribution of wealth, or even basic socialist principles, but rather Darwinian evolution. This was what was considered the first vital step towards a cooperative communist populace. Eliminate God the Creator, eliminate original sin, replace God with the State.

The Communists utilized Darwin’s observations of natural selection1 (which are valid observations) to advance a concept that all life, humans included, is pure chance resulting from environmental pressures existing for untold millions of years slowly molding them into their current status. The beginnings of life resulted from chance occurrences with random molecules. From a primordial ooze came the first living cell which became a two-celled organism and, billions of years later, became a human being, an organism of 100 trillion cells. The Chinese relied upon Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution to undermine the religious foundation of millions of faithful. Those too strong to crack were eliminated.2"

The below was written in an American Creation Science Text Book in 1928 by Rev. Williams in New Jersey. It also presciently exposed the "Piltdown Man" Evolutionist Hoax decades before evolutionists admitted it: http://ldolphin.org/wmwilliams.html

Thoughts?

"So baneful has been the effect of teaching evolution as a proven hypothesis, that multitudes have been led into infidelity [apostasy] and atheism. Prof. James H. Leuba, of Bryn Mawr College, Pa. sent a questionnaire to 1000 of the most prominent scientists teaching sciences relating to evolution. The replies indicate that more than one-half do not believe in a personal God, nor the immortality of the soul--beliefs almost universal even in the heathen world. So pernicious is this doctrine of evolution that more than one-half of the professors who teach it and kindred subjects, are infidels and atheists and farther from God than the ignorant heathen. And while we are happy in the conviction that the great majority of professors and teachers of other subjects are Christians [i.e. were Christians, in 1928], yet one or two atheists or infidels are sufficient to make havoc of the faith of many, in a great college or university.

A doctrine so abhorrent to the conscience, so contrary to the well nigh universal belief, and so fruitful of evil, certainly can not be true. Small wonder is it that students are fast becoming infidels and atheists, and we shudder as we think of the coming generation. A great responsibility rests upon the authorities who employ such teachers.

The answers of the students in seven large representative colleges and universities to Prof. Leuba's questionnaire, show that while only 15% of the Freshmen have abandoned the Christian religion, 30% of the Juniors and over 40% of the Seniors have abandoned the Christian faith. Note the steady and rapid growth of infidelity and atheism as a result of this pernicious theory.

Will Christian parents patronize or support or endow institutions that give an education that is worse than worthless? What the colleges teach today the world will believe tomorrow.

Atheism, under its own name, has never had many to embrace it. Its only hope is to be tolerated and believed under some other name. In Russia, no man is allowed to belong to the ruling (Communist) party unless he is an atheist. It will be a sorry world when "scientific" atheism wins, under the name of evolution.

No one has a moral right to believe what is false, much less to teach it, under the specious plea of freedom of thought.

It is the privilege and duty of parents to send their children to institutions that are safe.

Nathan Leopold, Jr., and Richard Loeb kidnapped and cruelly murdered Robert Franks. Both were brilliant scholars and atheists. Both graduates of universities though minors, and both were taking a post-graduate course in the University of Chicago. It is asserted and widely believed that they were encouraged in their atheistic belief by the teaching of evolution and modernism, and were thus prepared to commit a crime that shocked the world.

Most of the writers who advocated evolution became atheists or infidels; most of the professors who teach it, believe neither in God nor the immortality of the soul; and the number of students discarding Christianity rose from 15% in the Freshman year to 40% in the Senior. What more proof is needed?"

Evolution is false for God created all things and He did not use evolution to do it for He can create things in their mature form which is why the Bible says the animals, and fish, and fowl, were created after their kind which they did not come from a lower species and evolved but they were created in their mature form and reproduced from there.

What came first the chicken or the egg it was the chicken.

Humans were created in the image of God and He did not evolve and Eve was created right on the spot when God took a rib from Adam.

God made all the animals, fish, fowl, and Adam and Eve from the dust of the earth so they did not evolve from a lower species.

The new age movement interprets the Bible and religions according to the occult and evolution, and people are still evolving to be spiritual, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior but a good teacher and love and evolved to be an ascended master, and believe in no personal God but honor the God of forces or the power of nature as their higher power the evolutionary process, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher.

The Bible says the time will come when the world will not want to hear the Bible according to the truth but want to hear it according to their own lusts which I believe it the new age movement which they want to exalt themselves as evolving to be spiritual and there is no personal God above them.

The Bible says at the latter times some shall depart from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils which I believe it is speaking of the new age movement which is of the occult.

Which they believe Lucifer is a solar angel that descended from Venus to Earth eons ago to bring the principle of mind to the then animal-man and will cause them to evolve to be spiritual in the future.

It is the same lie that was told to Eve that she would be like a god if she ate the fruit which the new age movement look at Lucifer as the good god and Adonai, Yahweh, was the imposter who bound man from becoming gods.

The new age movement will eventually take over the world and when the world follows the New Age Christ then salvation is no longer available to the world and God will end sin on earth.

 

[Jocund]

God created all things and He did not use evolution to do it for He can create things in their mature form

God created Job in a womb, through the natural gestation process. Job wasn't created instantaneously in a mature form. There is nothing in scripture that states that the creation account was instantaneous. There is nothing in scripture that states that evolution wasn't used as a tool in the creation process.

If your question is "how could millions of years of evolution happen in 6 days?" Why wouldn't God be capable of making billions of years worth of events happen in the course of a day?

What came first the chicken or the egg it was the chicken.

That is an assumption, not something that is stated in scripture.

The new age movement interprets the Bible and religions according to the occult

Dispensationalism?

they want to exalt themselves as evolving to be spiritual and there is no personal God above them.

Christians believe in the "new creature" in Christ, the process leading up to the creation of earthy humanity (the first Adam) doesn't exalt humanity above God. Christian proponents of evolution believe that evolution is just a method that God used/uses to create, not something that operates outside of God's influence.

Which they believe Lucifer is a solar angel that descended from Venus to Earth eons ago to bring the principle of mind to the then animal-man and will cause them to evolve to be spiritual in the future.

Is this from Satanism? I've never encountered this interpretation before.

It is the same lie that was told to Eve that she would be like a god if she ate the fruit which the new age movement look at Lucifer as the good god and Adonai, Yahweh, was the imposter who bound man from becoming gods.

.That sounds like Satanism.

 

[WillB]

Jocund: God created Job in a womb, through the natural gestation process. Job wasn't created instantaneously in a mature form. There is nothing in scripture that states that the creation account was instantaneous. There is nothing in scripture that states that evolution wasn't used as a tool in the creation process.

WB: Genesis doesn't say that the physical Universe and Planet Earth was created in an instant.

Genesis informs that God created over a period of 6 literal days and in Exodus this information is further developed when God informs that He set His creative work as a pattern for the nation of Israel to follow. They were to work for 6 days and rest for 1 day. This makes sense only when the days are of 24 hour periods as it would be rather absurd to think the Israelites had to work for 6 days of Billions of years and to rest for 1 billion years.

IF God had created over billions of years He could very easily have inspired Moses to choose the correct terms to convey that by using OLAM and Qedem instead of 'yom.'

Furthermore, Genesis informs that animals were created according to their 'kind.' Modern science confirms that the DNA content of each 'kind' is creature specific e.g. the DNA with the feline kind will only ever produce offspring that are cats; and humans will only ever reproduce other humans.

It's a moot point but had Charlie Darwin known about the huge complexity of the cell which is more sophisticated than a Space Shuttle his 'Origins' - which by the way doesn't identify an original olrganism - would not have reached the printer.

 

[Jocund]

"Evolution happened" over millions of years.

Can God not make millions of years worth of happenings occur in a day?

The Bible says that Adam and Eve were created "in one fell swoop".

The Bible doesn't actually say this. We see a description that states that God took dust from the ground and turned it into Adam.

No mention of them coming from a lineage of evolving creatures.

The Bible also does not state whether Jesus ever sneezed, but it is reasonable to interpret that to be consistent with scripture even if it is not mentioned.

Many people claim to think Adam and Eve were metaphors for the beginnings of Mankind generally.

In a large part because "Adam" also translates to "mankind"

The story continues with Adam's sons, then his grandsons and through generations.

It is possible to approach the Gen 2 Adam as a description of mankind and then approach Gen 5 Adam as an individual. There are many possible approaches using metaphor. That's beside the point.

You might find it interesting that you don't need interpret Adam as a metaphor in order to accept evolution.

Then there's the idea of sin. If Adam were an evolving creature, did he reach the state of manhood, at which he reached the state of accountability?

If you mean Adam as a person, the person would not "evolve" in the sense of becoming a different morphological thing over time. If you mean "Adam" as mankind, Adam would not have existed prior to the moment of creation. Only something that was man-like would have existed as a primordial form, like clay being spun in the hands of the Creator, there would be steps between the initial shape (dust from the ground) and the final form (the first man).

It's hard to explain this concept because it often gets confused with the atheistic evolution interpretation.

If so, are animals on the same road of development to accountable creatures? Will they need a savior? Will it be Jesus or another?

We are told to spread the Gospel to every creature. It could be possible that God intended something that involved nonhumans. No idea. But if God can turn rocks into sons of Abraham, it is clearly possible to make something that is "not accountable" into something that "is accountable". It's a speculative side-topic.

Is Noah a metaphor?...or Abraham?...Jesus?!

Maybe someone could make the case for Noah or Abraham, but scripture explicitly states that Jesus' life, death, and resurrection are not metaphors "else your faith is in vain."

What about the "equivalency between Adam and Jesus - "the second Adam"?

Metaphoric Adam or not, I don't see the issue.

 

[Jocund]

Genesis informs that God created over a period of 6 literal days and in Exodus this information is further developed when God informs that He set His creative work as a pattern for the nation of Israel to follow. They were to work for 6 days and rest for 1 day. This makes sense only when the days are of 24 hour periods as it would be rather absurd to think the Israelites had to work for 6 days of Billions of years and to rest for 1 billion years.

Jewish Passover is 40 days despite the fact it commemorates 40 years in the desert. It doesn't make sense that there would need to be a one-to one correlation between the original event and the period of time that honours it. That's beside the point. Evolution and billions of years worth of happenings does not require billions of years to have actually taken place.

IF God had created over billions of years He could very easily have inspired Moses to choose the correct terms to convey that by using OLAM and Qedem instead of 'yom.'

"Correct" terms according to whom? Figurative language exists in the Bible. Jesus speaking in parables does not make the parables themselves "less correct". All of that is still beside the point because billions' of years of happenings could have been placed within 6 literal days.

Furthermore, Genesis informs that animals were created according to their 'kind.' Modern science confirms that the DNA content of each 'kind' is creature specific e.g. the DNA with the feline kind will only ever produce offspring that are cats; and humans will only ever reproduce other humans.

The finalized creations (i.e. modern animals, hypothetically) are specialized into kinds. I don't see the issue.

It's a moot point but had Charlie Darwin known about the huge complexity of the cell which is more sophisticated than a Space Shuttle his 'Origins' - which by the way doesn't identify an original olrganism - would not have reached the printer.

I can appreciate that there are many objections to atheistic evolution but that is still a different topic than theistic/God-guided evolution.

 

[CS1]

Evolution can never be compatible with Christianity.


Evolution is man's intellectual attempt to explain everything without God. The effects of Evolution produced offspring such as:

• Atheism
• Marxism
• Socialism
• Communism

This came from the Founder of Evolution, Charles Darwin.

In contrast, Christianity comes from the person. Of Jesus Christ, who says He is God, TAUGHT nothing WAS made WITHOUT him OR GOD.

 

[Inquisitor]

Evolution is simply impossible, order cannot come from chaos. The laws of thermodynamics prove this. Evolution if completely contradictory to the creation and is incompatible with Christianity. Evolution is simply a lie. Unfortunately in this age, we are constantly bombarded with lies, we need to be diligent at all times in all matters.

Many blessings be upon you, thank you for the interesting and informative post.

JF

A literal six days of creation is insufficient time for plants to grow. Adam and Eve would have no food to eat for months.

If you then argue that God created plants fully grown. Then the plants are older than they look. Does everything else in creation look much older than it appears to be?

The earth looks very old but is actually, only, a little older than a pyramid?

 

[Inquisitor]

I want to say that this is life. No matter you are rich or poor, you will encounter problems in life. For example, if people believe in God, what else should Bishop O’Gara do? They can go to meet God, I mean dead and raised.

Everyone encounters a bit more than mere problems in life.

The truth is in life there are no winners, everyone ends up in the graveyard.

A planet full of losers with one unavoidable destination.

They carry on and make so much noise during their short lives, then they quietly disappear.

That is one of the reasons I call on the name of Jesus.

 

[Cameron143]

Everyone encounters a bit more than mere problems in life.

The truth is in life there are no winners, everyone ends up in the graveyard.

A planet full of losers with one unavoidable destination.

They carry on and make so much noise during their short lives, then they quietly disappear.

That is one of the reasons I call on the name of Jesus.

Solomon would agree with you...all is vanity. To me that's a bit too fatalistic. A life lived well gets a well done from the Lord and even our trials and struggles work for us a far more abundant and exceeding weight in glory. And eternal life is knowing God and that can be done anywhere at any time and under any circumstances.

 

[Inquisitor]

A literal six days of creation is insufficient time for plants to grow. Adam and Eve would have no food to eat for months.

If you then argue that God created plants fully grown. Then the plants are older than they look. Does everything else in creation look much older than it's actual age?

The earth looks very old but is actually, only, a little older than a pyramid?

Mountain ranges formed by colliding plates were instantly created?

This is the problem, our planet has from top to bottom, an ancient age written all over it.

 

[Inquisitor]

Solomon would agree with you...all is vanity. To me that's a bit too fatalistic. A life lived well gets a well done from the Lord and even our trials and struggles work for us a far more abundant and exceeding weight in glory. And eternal life is knowing God and that can be done anywhere at any time and under any circumstances.

Sorry, it's not fatalistic, life kills everyone. Just a fact of life.

Physics falsely claims that the arrow of time points forward. Well that's wrong. The arrow of time is backwards. When you get much older you have an enormous past, but a diminishing future. Who cares about Einstein, Trump, Elon Musk, or anyone else. Here today gone tomorrow.

Mwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

 

[Inquisitor]

A valid message.

 

[Cameron143]

Sorry, it's not fatalistic, life kills everyone. Just a fact of life.

Physics falsely claims that the arrow of time points forward. Well that's wrong. The arrow of time is backwards. When you get much older you have an enormous past, but a diminishing future. Who cares about Einstein, Trump, Elon Musk, or anyone else. Here today gone tomorrow.

Mwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Yeah. I get it. But that's just the material reality. The spiritual reality is that we have passed from death into life and death as you refer to it has lost it's sting.

 

[Jocund]

A literal six days of creation is insufficient time for plants to grow.

A question you might want to consider is whether the tree that Jesus cursed instantaneously withered or whether it rapidly aged and withered.

Either case could be true.

Why then couldn't the first plants rapidly age?

 

[CS1]

A literal six days of creation is insufficient time for plants to grow. Adam and Eve would have no food to eat for months.

If you then argue that God created plants fully grown. Then the plants are older than they look. Does everything else in creation look much older than it appears to be?

The earth looks very old but is actually only a little older than a pyramid?

Maybe if you read the bible, you would know 1. God made the fruit and seed-baring fruits before he made man 2. With God, all things are possible. God doesn't need the time man says it takes for food to grow LOL. 3. the time it takes after the FALL OF man causes them to Labor or wait for their food because of SIN. Human rational is not an authority over the God of the Bible. The Lord God Lives outside of time, space, and matter. Unlike you and I.

 

[Inquisitor]

A question you might want to consider is whether the tree that Jesus cursed instantaneously withered or whether it rapidly aged and withered.

Either case could be true.

Why then couldn't the first plants rapidly age?

No one has the answer to these curly kinds of questions.

Here is a simple problem that might help to explain Genesis.

The soil on the ground is the result of the erosion of rock. For plants to grow a plant needs soil and water. If the soil takes thousands of years to accumulate, then one has to conclude. Since the plants existed in one day and the soil appeared instantly. Then God has deceived the entire scientific world. The world is recent but all scientific lines of evidence tell us that it's ancient. An old earth is supported by geology, cosmology, biology, archaeology, paleontology, etc. They have their own lines of evidence to support their view and they don't need to borrow from each other.

Once again, by faith I hold to a six day creation. Yet by observation and measurement I hold to an ancient universe.

 

[Inquisitor]

Maybe if you read the bible, you would know 1. God made the fruit and seed-baring fruits before he made man 2. With God, all things are possible. God doesn't need the time man says it takes for food to grow LOL. 3. the time it takes after the FALL OF man causes them to Labor or wait for their food because of SIN. Human rational is not an authority over the God of the Bible. The Lord God Lives outside of time, space, and matter. Unlike you and I.

So was the creation week in God's timing or in man's chronology?