Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Grandpa]

Rather, it is you who reject the Truth and have been deceived/misled yourself. Jesus Christ said in Mat 18 that those die with hatred and unforgiveness will not go to Heaven. That's exactly what happened in the Video. I preach the Truth because I love Souls, especially other Christians, and don't want them to believe lies like that they can live in hatred and unforgiveness and still go to Heaven. What is so difficult about acknowledging the Truth and simply confessing one's hatred and unforgiveness, and being forgiven, as 1 Jn 1:9 says, and then going to Heaven? That I don't know. You will know the Truth on Judgment Day. We all will. OSAS is a false doctrine, especially Free Grace OSAS, which claims apostates and unbelievers who once were Christians can still be saved. That contradicts all of Scripture, including that one Jn 10:28 that you rely on. Apostates don't follow Him, hence they are not His Sheep. Apostates don't hear His Voice, hence they are not His Sheep. Apostates don't know Him, hence they are not His Sheep. They are His Sheep who believe and persevere in believing till death, and do those things commanded by the King of Kings in Matthew 25, for which they will be Rewarded.

In Christ,
Xavier.

The False Doctrine is thinking that you can dispel the hatred and unforgiveness in your heart.

YOU CAN'T. Only the Lord Jesus Can. And He does that by giving you a New Heart. One not filled with hate and unforgiveness.


Salvation and Eternal Life is NOT something we work to earn. It is not something we can emulate. It is what Christ gives us when we come to Him and ask.

Living in hatred and unforgiveness simply means the heart was never changed to begin with. NOT the losing of Salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

The False Doctrine is thinking that you can dispel the hatred and unforgiveness in your heart.

YOU CAN'T. Only the Lord Jesus Can. And He does that by giving you a New Heart. One not filled with hate and unforgiveness.

Salvation and Eternal Life is NOT something we work to earn. It is not something we can emulate. It is what Christ gives us when we come to Him and ask.

Living in hatred and unforgiveness simply means the heart was never changed to begin with. NOT the losing of Salvation.

Amen! Moral self-reformation is not a substitute for REGENERATION. When we are born again, we become new creations in Christ. (2 Corinthians 5:17) The Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we become partakers of the divine nature. (2 Peter 1:4) Our hearts have been changed. Romans 5:5 - Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. Love and living in hatred and unforgiveness do not mix.

 

[ZNP]

In total agreement ZNP. Our part is to hear and do. Not just hear. " That in turn requires maintaining the fellowship with all saints and being reconciled with everyone who is offended with you." I assume you are referring to "When you bring your gift to the altar and there remember that your brother has ought against you first be reconciled to your brother and then come and offer your gift". I do the best I can but sometimes you just get unfriended and they live overseas or stateside and are offended when we are the ones that should be offended. One of the more difficult sayings of Jesus in complex circumstances, when the offended is in need of repentance for example. In which case , I might just let them go their way. Thanks for sharing

Yes, the best thing about social media is you learn how easily others get offended.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Moral self-reformation is not a substitute for REGENERATION. When we are born again, we become new creations in Christ. (2 Corinthians 5:17) The Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we become partakers of the divine nature. (2 Peter 1:4)

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at, but I think a couple of things should be noted: 1) 2 Corinthians 5:17 is talking about us becoming new creations in Christ; 2) When you read the context, it's clear the "divine nature" we partake of is Christ's: "Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

We become partakers of Christ's divine nature through faith in God's promises.

I challenge anyone to produce a single scripture that teaches we have any kind of divinity or eternal life in ourselves apart from Christ. And if Christ is our life, we can lose that life if we reject Him.

 

[FreeGrace2]

it doesn't matter about the Promise.

Of course the promise matters. It is the promise that is EVERYTHING. Without the promise, there is NOTHING.

the Promise is based upon you CHOOSING to Trust.

Right. Man has a choice whether to believe God's promise or not.

if you choose to stop trusting there is no longer any Promise.

Why do you insert your OPINION here? The promise stands REGARDLESS of what man does. You are kidding yourself.

And you FAIL to understand that salvation includes a number of things that CANNOT be undone. Not even man can undo what God does.

When God saves you, you are ARROGANT to think you have the power to undo God's salvation. That is the height of arrogance. John 10:28,29 says you have no power to take yourself out of God's hand.

the Person holds the position to which they want to be in.

What you fail to understand is that once "in" God won't let you out. Not any more than parents can unborn their own children.

God is only rewarding those WHO continue to Trust Him!

I am a Berean. Prove your opinion with Scripture that SAYS what you SAY. Or there is no reason to accept your claim.

Paul also tells us only when we TRUST God are we Sealed and Guaranteed.

Do you understand what "guaranteed" means?? Do you find any words in Eph 1:13,14 that says ONLY IF you keep believing is the guarantee valid? NO, you don't. So again, your opinion gets in the way of truth.

and since that is OUR DECISION to make, we can Trust today and stop trusting tomorrow.

That is true and Jesus said as much in Luke 8:13 about the second soil. But Jesus is the One who taught eternal security from the MOMENT a person becomes a believer. They HAVE eternal life (Jn 5:24) and shall never perish (Jn 10:28).

but the Guarantee [[is ONLY]] based upon if we continue to TRUST in God!

I'll wait for any verse that you can find that SAYS what you SAY. Bereans accept no less than that.

 

[mailmandan]

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at, but I think a couple of things should be noted: 1) 2 Corinthians 5:17 is talking about us becoming new creations in Christ; 2) When you read the context, it's clear the "divine nature" we partake of is Christ's: "Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

We become partakers of Christ's divine nature through faith in God's promises.

I challenge anyone to produce a single scripture that teaches we have any kind of divinity or eternal life in ourselves apart from Christ. And if Christ is our life, we can lose that life if we reject Him.

My point was that those who are born again are new creations in Christ and have become partakers of the divine nature. Not that we 'in of ourselves' have a divine nature, apart from Christ. We have a new heart and have been changed. Praise God!

 

[FreeGrace2]

IWe become partakers of Christ's divine nature through faith in God's promises.

I challenge anyone to produce a single scripture that teaches we have any kind of divinity or eternal life in ourselves apart from Christ. And if Christ is our life, we can lose that life if we reject Him.

In response to your challenge, you must first PROVE that any believer in the NT can lose the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, or that His sealing ministry can be broken.

And, of course, you can't do that, because the Bible doesn't teach that. So your challenge is a false one. You can't even prove your own claim from Scripture.

Here are verses that are pertinent to the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit:

Eph 1-
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

The Holy Spirit is a seal which is a PROMISE that GUARANTEES the believer's inheritance for the redemption of God's possession (His children)

These verses all refute your claim.

Study them. Learn them. Believe them.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You don't have a choice in what you trust.

Nonsense. The gospel promise is a choice in and of itself. You are just kidding yourself.

Trust comes with experience.

You confuse "trust" with "believe". Some believe a red stove top is hot because they experienced a hot stove. Others believe a red stove top is hot because their mother told them it is hot and they TRUSTED her. Do you see the difference.

James 2:19 says demons believe that God is One. Why? Was that belief from trust? No. It was from experience. God created them and they lived with Him in heaven until they were kicked out.

Do demons TRUST God? No, they hate Him and everything about Him.

 

[ResidentAlien]

My point was that those who are born again are new creations in Christ and have become partakers of the divine nature. Not that we 'in of ourselves' have a divine nature, apart from Christ. We have a new heart and have been changed. Praise God!

You're contradicting yourself. On one hand you say we haven't been given a divine nature when we're born again; then you say we have been "changed" and have a "new" heart. It can't be both. We may be transformed over time through faith in Christ, but lose that faith and all bets are off.

Our hearts haven't been changed. The Holy Spirit has been poured out in our hearts, as in Romans 5:5, "Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." The only reason we have love in our hearts is because God put it there through faith in Him.

 

[ZNP]

Two Sacraments

The New Testament has instituted two sacraments, two rituals that depict the imparting of divine grace.

Baptism -- this indicates that we are immersed into the name, the person, of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. This would mean we are immersed into the word of God, into worship, into fellowship, into prayer. This is not supposed to depict a single event, but a depiction of a life that is lived immersed in God.

The Lord's table -- we are told to do this often and it depicts eating and drinking the Lord. Again, you would not think that you fed a baby once and that is that. Yes, when we eat the bread and the wine we are receiving the eternal life that will never perish, but it is depicting something that we would do daily.

 

[mailmandan]

You're contradicting yourself. On one hand you say we haven't been given a divine nature when we're born again; then you say we have been "changed" and have a "new" heart. It can't be both. We may be transformed over time through faith in Christ, but lose that faith and all bets are off.

Our hearts haven't been changed. The Holy Spirit has been poured out in our hearts, as in Romans 5:5, "Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." The only reason we have love in our hearts is because God put it there through faith in Him.

No contradiction. The key is "in Christ" we experience this change and not 'in of ourselves' apart from Christ. Just like we become become "the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Corinthians 5:21) and not 'in of ourselves.' It's "imputed righteousness" and not 'self righteousness.' (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9)

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I'll wait for any verse that you can find that SAYS what you SAY. Bereans accept no less than that.

you agree that to have the Guarantee spoken about in Verse 14 a person must first have Trust in God in Verse 13.

so no guarantee until there is first Trust in God.

that is a condition: trust in God = Guarantee

but, you disagree if that TRUST is removed after one is Saved the Guarantee is no longer in effect based upon not mentioned in the Bible?

you do understand the New Testament is only teaching how to be Saved, not how to Walk Away after you're Saved?

but the logic is there that:
1. this is how you are Saved = Trust in God
2. no Trust in God = not Saved

so if a person Trusts and is Saved but loses their Trust they should not be Saved.



you claim to be a Berean:
in the Garden, the Serpent deceived Eve.
the Church teaches the Serpent is named Satan but [[((nowhere))]] in the Bible does it claim the Serpent is Satan.
as a Berean, how do you believe the Serpent is Satan when it is not told to us in the Bible anywhere?
a true Berean would not believe the Serpent who beguiled Eve was Satan because the Bible does not name the Serpent.


but you can believe the Serpent is Satan but cannot believe if you stop Trusting God you are no longer Saved?

you're not a Berean but someone who uses the Bible out of CONVENIENCE without ever applying Common Sense to it!

 

[cv5]

Two Sacraments

two rituals that depict the imparting of divine grace.

Yes. Depict not provide.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

You don't have a choice in what you trust.

Trust comes with experience. Once you experience what is trustworthy you CAN'T just stop trusting it. It's already proven.


Try it. Try not trusting something that you absolutely trust in. Like gravity. Like objects falling to the earth. Try not trusting in that. Seems stupid, right?

i trust i can hammer nails but once in awhile i end up hammering my finger. then i become cautious.

i trust Gravity because i can mathematically prove its existence alongside experience it.

but is there a tragedy, like some have faced, which made them question God and resulted losing their Trust in God? i know of several examples. maybe they weren't as strong in their belief and walk in God like You or myself, but they did believe and now think God failed them.

it happens all the time.

if you don't know of any examples like that, you probably don't get outside to the real world very much!

 

[cv5]

You're contradicting yourself. On one hand you say we haven't been given a divine nature when we're born again; then you say we have been "changed" and have a "new" heart. It can't be both.

Bro........its called "growth" and "transformed". Which occurs ex post facto the indwelling of the Holy Ghost.

Eph 4:15
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

1Pe 2:2
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

2Pe 3:18
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Rom 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[cv5]

We become partakers of Christ's divine nature through faith in God's promises.

Correction:
We become partakers of faith in God's promises through the gracious imparting of the Divine nature. God is always the prime mover.

Eph 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[ResidentAlien]

Bro........its called "growth" and "transformed". Which occurs ex post facto the indwelling of the Holy Ghost.

Okay, thanks for your input.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Correction:
We become partakers of faith in God's promises through the gracious imparting of the Divine nature. God is always the prime mover.

Okay, thanks for your input.

 

[cv5]

Okay, thanks for your input.

Yet.......we are to ask to receive more grace. So yes it is a two way street in some cosmic sense. As are many many aspects of the concourse with the Divine One. It is a relationship after all.

 

[EDENgate]

I rest my case.

If you're insisting Salvation is not eternal you have no case. In fact , that would be calling Jesus a fraud and a liar.

Thinking people are able to release themselves from God's grace,when it is God who gives his his free grace, is implying God is not sovereign.
And people are able to overcome his will by their choice.

That's never going to be true.