Modern Prophets
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That is not really the function of a prophet. So before we understand who a prophet is we need to understand what prophecy is. Prophecy is neither the proclamation of the Gospel nor the teaching of Bible doctrines. Prophecy -- according to Scripture -- is the proclamation of DIVINE REVELATIONS from the Holy Spirit meant for all Christians: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation [Gk epilusis = unloosening]. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (2 Peter 1:20,21)
So what do we learn from these two verses:
1. Prophecy cannot be divorced from Scripture. Thus the OT consisted of "the Law and the Prophets", but even "the Law" (the Torah) was prophetic in that Moses who wrote the Torah was the leading prophet of the OT. And every Bible writer was ultimately a prophet. Furthermore, nothing outside of Scripture should be regarded as prophetic, because prophecies are the words of God. And "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" (Rev 19:10).
2. Prophecy is not of any private explanation or unloosening, which means that no one can simply explain the meaning of prophecy on his own (which is what is happening today). Prophecy must be interpreted in view of the whole Bible, and many times we may not even be able to fully understand some prophecies. Many Christians do not understand the prophecies concerning a future redeemed and restored Israel under Christ.
3. Prophecy cannot originate simply from within a man -- "not by the will of man". Nostradamus is regarded as a prophet by the secular world but his prophecies did not come from the Holy Spirit. Thus they are mostly obscure and can be interpreted in many ways.
4. "Holy men of God" means that God chose certain men through whom He would give divine revelations. Jonah was a reluctant prophet and Balaam was a hireling prophet, but God used both of them. Peter, John, and Paul were both apostles and prophets. Balaam could not really be classified as a "holy man of God" but God even spoke through His donkey, so that is not even an issue. Balaam could not help but say the things God gave him, and he even prophesied of the birth of Christ.
5. "Spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" is the key which divides prophets from evangelists, pastors, and teachers. That word "moved" (Gk pheromenoi = carried) means "borne along" or "carried along". The prophet was not in control of the words he was given. They came directly from God and no one can really explain how this "dictation" worked. The matter is discussed in great detail by B. B. Warfield in his book "The Inspiration and Authority of the Bible " (of which I have a copy). Thus in the NT we often read that the Holy Ghost spoke in the Psalms, when the words were actually written by David. So David was in fact a prophet, and the whole book of Psalms may be regarded as prophecy (both forth telling and foretelling). There are many major Messianic prophecies in the Psalms.
6. Christians should understand that the book of Revelation is a book of prophecy. Not only does it close the Bible, but it also closes all genuine prophecies. Therefore we are NOT to expect prophets today or believe any of the things they say. The Millerites and the Adventists attempted to predict the Second Coming of Christ and they failed miserably. Joseph Smith claimed to be a prophet but instead created the cult of the Mormons. Ellen G. White claimed to be a prophetess and came up with a whole bunch of false doctrines held by Seventh Day Adventists.
So what do we learn from these two verses:
1. Prophecy cannot be divorced from Scripture. Thus the OT consisted of "the Law and the Prophets", but even "the Law" (the Torah) was prophetic in that Moses who wrote the Torah was the leading prophet of the OT. And every Bible writer was ultimately a prophet. Furthermore, nothing outside of Scripture should be regarded as prophetic, because prophecies are the words of God. And "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" (Rev 19:10).
2. Prophecy is not of any private explanation or unloosening, which means that no one can simply explain the meaning of prophecy on his own (which is what is happening today). Prophecy must be interpreted in view of the whole Bible, and many times we may not even be able to fully understand some prophecies. Many Christians do not understand the prophecies concerning a future redeemed and restored Israel under Christ.
3. Prophecy cannot originate simply from within a man -- "not by the will of man". Nostradamus is regarded as a prophet by the secular world but his prophecies did not come from the Holy Spirit. Thus they are mostly obscure and can be interpreted in many ways.
4. "Holy men of God" means that God chose certain men through whom He would give divine revelations. Jonah was a reluctant prophet and Balaam was a hireling prophet, but God used both of them. Peter, John, and Paul were both apostles and prophets. Balaam could not really be classified as a "holy man of God" but God even spoke through His donkey, so that is not even an issue. Balaam could not help but say the things God gave him, and he even prophesied of the birth of Christ.
5. "Spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" is the key which divides prophets from evangelists, pastors, and teachers. That word "moved" (Gk pheromenoi = carried) means "borne along" or "carried along". The prophet was not in control of the words he was given. They came directly from God and no one can really explain how this "dictation" worked. The matter is discussed in great detail by B. B. Warfield in his book "The Inspiration and Authority of the Bible " (of which I have a copy). Thus in the NT we often read that the Holy Ghost spoke in the Psalms, when the words were actually written by David. So David was in fact a prophet, and the whole book of Psalms may be regarded as prophecy (both forth telling and foretelling). There are many major Messianic prophecies in the Psalms.
6. Christians should understand that the book of Revelation is a book of prophecy. Not only does it close the Bible, but it also closes all genuine prophecies. Therefore we are NOT to expect prophets today or believe any of the things they say. The Millerites and the Adventists attempted to predict the Second Coming of Christ and they failed miserably. Joseph Smith claimed to be a prophet but instead created the cult of the Mormons. Ellen G. White claimed to be a prophetess and came up with a whole bunch of false doctrines held by Seventh Day Adventists.
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What is the NT spiritual gift of prophecy? Pentecostal types say all gifts are still available to the church as there is no evidence they ceased within scripture.
They define prophecy only within the scriptures in the NT so basically you have a person who encourages and builds up the church.
Which is odd to me because one of the key OT elements of prophet was to expose sin but yet the NT scriptures only speak of encouragement?
They define prophecy only within the scriptures in the NT so basically you have a person who encourages and builds up the church.
Which is odd to me because one of the key OT elements of prophet was to expose sin but yet the NT scriptures only speak of encouragement?
The place to start is the Bible. Peter said "we have a more sure word of prophecy".
Second, the biggest miracle in the Bible, bigger than anything by a wide margin is that God gives us a new heart. I have experienced a number of miracles in my life and in everyone it doesn't give people a new heart.
The third thing is that Jesus said that the volume of the book is about Him. That word "volume" means every minute detail. If the prophet does not help you to get a revelation of Jesus then what is the point? The biggest revelation I ever got was of one verse in the New Testament. Since that time I must have prayed a hundred times based on that verse and since I had faith in that I received an answer to those prayers. To me that is the most valuable revelation, a revelation of Jesus that transforms your prayer life.
Second, the biggest miracle in the Bible, bigger than anything by a wide margin is that God gives us a new heart. I have experienced a number of miracles in my life and in everyone it doesn't give people a new heart.
The third thing is that Jesus said that the volume of the book is about Him. That word "volume" means every minute detail. If the prophet does not help you to get a revelation of Jesus then what is the point? The biggest revelation I ever got was of one verse in the New Testament. Since that time I must have prayed a hundred times based on that verse and since I had faith in that I received an answer to those prayers. To me that is the most valuable revelation, a revelation of Jesus that transforms your prayer life.
It is no different than that of the OT prophets, and Peter already alludes to this in the same passage which says that prophesies are divine revelations from the Holy Spirit equivalent to Scripture: We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: (2 Peter 1:19).
NIV Paraphrase: We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.
As we notice in the OT the prophets were (a) forthtelling what God wanted Israel to hear about its spiritual condition (generally the condemnation of sin and idolatry) and (b) foretelling future events which could go as far into the future as the New Heavens and the New Earth. So if modern day prophets are failing to do proclaim the the churches that they must repent, then they are false prophets. In this connection we should note how many times the messages to the seven churches from Christ have the imperative to "repent".
NIV Paraphrase: We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.
As we notice in the OT the prophets were (a) forthtelling what God wanted Israel to hear about its spiritual condition (generally the condemnation of sin and idolatry) and (b) foretelling future events which could go as far into the future as the New Heavens and the New Earth. So if modern day prophets are failing to do proclaim the the churches that they must repent, then they are false prophets. In this connection we should note how many times the messages to the seven churches from Christ have the imperative to "repent".
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I don't know this person. I haven't looked up the links. I just wanted to respond to some of the ideas in the post.
I think most prophets are a part of a local church and have the gift, and probably do not have name cards that say 'prophet'. That is not to say that someone who does this can't open a 501c3 or a 508 ministry organization and focus on prophesying and revelatory ministry. Some churches allow prophets to function in the assembly. Ironically, it seems like this is some of the old fashioned Pentecostal churches that historically have not used the title 'prophet' much. Prophets tend to be able to function in these churches, whereas in churches in the 'prophetic movement', prophets might not be given space to minister unless they are in the pulpit.
Prophets are supposed to edify, comfort, and exhort. I haven't seen a lot of prophetic slamming of someone in church or rebukes, at least that others would catch on to. That sort of thing might be rare. I wouldn't want to see weekly Ananias and Saphira type scenarios. Peter did not say 'Thus saith the LORD' before the words he spoke to them, but it sure seems like he knew about their deception by revelation.
I also someone could have a genuine prophetic gift, but be given some wrong teaching or have a wrong emphasis that can at least affect how they do things or structure things. I find paying to be a part of a prophetic school extremely off-putting. But people pay to go to Bible college. I don't think that is the optimal system for training church leaders, since in scripture see itinerant ministers training other ministers and instructions for teaching within the local church community. We also see Christians selling books on theology and various other topics, btw. With prophetic ministry, even if it is allowed, I think those who do these ministries should go the extra mile to pull the rug out from under those who would accuse them of doing their ministry for money. That is one reason Paul set aside his right to live of the Gospel,. and his ministry was evangelistic in nature.
My impression of people who have been involved in the Bethel movement is that there is this idea taught that prophecies have to be 'good', meaning good from a human perspective. They don't put it that way. I had a conversation with someone who'd gone there about this, and after poking a few holes in it, he got a more moderate stance really quick.
I can imagine how being taught that prophecies must be 'positive' could confuse someone with a prophetic gift who had a 'heavier' word or might hinder their faith to share such words. Those who prophesy are to 'prophesy according to the proportion of faith.' On the other hand, God may give some people a lot of blessing type words (and I mean blessing in the Biblical sense.) Prophets might specialize a bit in giving certain types of words... if the Spirit of God so chooses.
I wouldn't consider someone to be a false prophet because their prophetic words were too positive.... or because their prophetic words were too negative. And if someone is ministering to a room full of spiritually immature people, they may be treated like babies as well. If a room full of people are hardened, they may get different types of words.
Prophets are human and can make wrong financial decisions. Apart from their prophesying, they can also hold to wrong ideas, factual errors, even poor ideas or implementation of doctrine. Peter and Barnabas were doing wrongly when it came to eating with Gentiles. Barnabas had been among the prophets and teachers in Antioch. If Luke hadn't translated the name the apostles gave him as 'son of encouragement' we might call it 'son of prophecy.' Peter got that word about Ananias and that word about Saphira, had a vision, heard the Spirit speak to him, and saw an angel. But he could get off in how he interacted with Gentiles. Elijah also was wrong about being the only one left. Prophets are not guaranteed infallibility in their knowledge, speech, attitudes, or even every aspect of doctrine or practice.
So there could be a flaw with a prophets character or thinking about some things. They could even make poor ministry decisions, potentially.
Then there is also the example of Balaam, who prophesied true things, but used his knowledge to entice God's people to sin and became a type of false teacher in the New Testament, of those who love the wages of unrighteousness. His prophesying in the name of the LORD was not at fault. We are warned about false prophets, to know them by their fruits. So we need to be concerned not just about those who claim to be prophets but give false prophecies, but also about those whose prophecies are true, but who are not true followers of Christ themselves.
And we also need to have a gracious attitude and not declare a gifted person damned for some misunderstanding of scripture that needs to be forgiven or sin that needs to be repented of. We should realize that we also can be tempted, so we should have the spirit of meekness and correct those who sin.
I think most prophets are a part of a local church and have the gift, and probably do not have name cards that say 'prophet'. That is not to say that someone who does this can't open a 501c3 or a 508 ministry organization and focus on prophesying and revelatory ministry. Some churches allow prophets to function in the assembly. Ironically, it seems like this is some of the old fashioned Pentecostal churches that historically have not used the title 'prophet' much. Prophets tend to be able to function in these churches, whereas in churches in the 'prophetic movement', prophets might not be given space to minister unless they are in the pulpit.
Prophets are supposed to edify, comfort, and exhort. I haven't seen a lot of prophetic slamming of someone in church or rebukes, at least that others would catch on to. That sort of thing might be rare. I wouldn't want to see weekly Ananias and Saphira type scenarios. Peter did not say 'Thus saith the LORD' before the words he spoke to them, but it sure seems like he knew about their deception by revelation.
I also someone could have a genuine prophetic gift, but be given some wrong teaching or have a wrong emphasis that can at least affect how they do things or structure things. I find paying to be a part of a prophetic school extremely off-putting. But people pay to go to Bible college. I don't think that is the optimal system for training church leaders, since in scripture see itinerant ministers training other ministers and instructions for teaching within the local church community. We also see Christians selling books on theology and various other topics, btw. With prophetic ministry, even if it is allowed, I think those who do these ministries should go the extra mile to pull the rug out from under those who would accuse them of doing their ministry for money. That is one reason Paul set aside his right to live of the Gospel,. and his ministry was evangelistic in nature.
My impression of people who have been involved in the Bethel movement is that there is this idea taught that prophecies have to be 'good', meaning good from a human perspective. They don't put it that way. I had a conversation with someone who'd gone there about this, and after poking a few holes in it, he got a more moderate stance really quick.
I can imagine how being taught that prophecies must be 'positive' could confuse someone with a prophetic gift who had a 'heavier' word or might hinder their faith to share such words. Those who prophesy are to 'prophesy according to the proportion of faith.' On the other hand, God may give some people a lot of blessing type words (and I mean blessing in the Biblical sense.) Prophets might specialize a bit in giving certain types of words... if the Spirit of God so chooses.
I wouldn't consider someone to be a false prophet because their prophetic words were too positive.... or because their prophetic words were too negative. And if someone is ministering to a room full of spiritually immature people, they may be treated like babies as well. If a room full of people are hardened, they may get different types of words.
Prophets are human and can make wrong financial decisions. Apart from their prophesying, they can also hold to wrong ideas, factual errors, even poor ideas or implementation of doctrine. Peter and Barnabas were doing wrongly when it came to eating with Gentiles. Barnabas had been among the prophets and teachers in Antioch. If Luke hadn't translated the name the apostles gave him as 'son of encouragement' we might call it 'son of prophecy.' Peter got that word about Ananias and that word about Saphira, had a vision, heard the Spirit speak to him, and saw an angel. But he could get off in how he interacted with Gentiles. Elijah also was wrong about being the only one left. Prophets are not guaranteed infallibility in their knowledge, speech, attitudes, or even every aspect of doctrine or practice.
So there could be a flaw with a prophets character or thinking about some things. They could even make poor ministry decisions, potentially.
Then there is also the example of Balaam, who prophesied true things, but used his knowledge to entice God's people to sin and became a type of false teacher in the New Testament, of those who love the wages of unrighteousness. His prophesying in the name of the LORD was not at fault. We are warned about false prophets, to know them by their fruits. So we need to be concerned not just about those who claim to be prophets but give false prophecies, but also about those whose prophecies are true, but who are not true followers of Christ themselves.
And we also need to have a gracious attitude and not declare a gifted person damned for some misunderstanding of scripture that needs to be forgiven or sin that needs to be repented of. We should realize that we also can be tempted, so we should have the spirit of meekness and correct those who sin.
The list of spiritual gifts per 1 Cor 12:8-10, are all no longer present today nor are they needed as they were in the early church. They were needed then to build and inspire the fledgling church. There was no completed written word of God then. All such gifts have either ceased or have vanished away 1 Cor 13:8.
The miraculous manifestation of the gifts were initially bestowed upon the apostles and then to others only by the laying on of THEIR hands. Read carefully Luke 24:49, Acts 1, Acts 2, and examples of the laying on of the apostle's hands in Acts 5:12, Acts 8:18, Acts 19:6. There are no apostles alive nor anyone they laid there hands on. The gifts equated to various parts of the human body, them being members of the Lord's body, the church. We no longer need tongues, or prophesy, or miracles, etc. The body of Christ is complete and we have the written word to guide us.
Also see 2 Cor 3:7-18, Eph 4:11-16, Gal 3:23-25, 1 Cor 13:8-12, and see the similarity in words and phrases, and piece it all together for the truth regarding the miraculous manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit.
The miraculous manifestation of the gifts were initially bestowed upon the apostles and then to others only by the laying on of THEIR hands. Read carefully Luke 24:49, Acts 1, Acts 2, and examples of the laying on of the apostle's hands in Acts 5:12, Acts 8:18, Acts 19:6. There are no apostles alive nor anyone they laid there hands on. The gifts equated to various parts of the human body, them being members of the Lord's body, the church. We no longer need tongues, or prophesy, or miracles, etc. The body of Christ is complete and we have the written word to guide us.
Also see 2 Cor 3:7-18, Eph 4:11-16, Gal 3:23-25, 1 Cor 13:8-12, and see the similarity in words and phrases, and piece it all together for the truth regarding the miraculous manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit.
why do you think the Gifts ended when the Bible was completed?
you do realize the Bible won't be COMPLETED until everything Prophesied is finished? we have the Rapture, Tribulation, Antichrist, False Prophet, 2 witnesses, 1,000 Year Reign, Great White Throne Judgement all to go before it is literally Completed!
that's not what the Church Fathers claimed concerning 1 Corinthians 13:8-10. to them the Perfection to Come is when we see Yeshua as He is in Heaven, not how He was on Earth where Isaiah claimed He would be like a root among the flowers and nothing much to look upon. Which Preacher is teaching what you are peddling here?
you do realize the Bible won't be COMPLETED until everything Prophesied is finished? we have the Rapture, Tribulation, Antichrist, False Prophet, 2 witnesses, 1,000 Year Reign, Great White Throne Judgement all to go before it is literally Completed!
that's not what the Church Fathers claimed concerning 1 Corinthians 13:8-10. to them the Perfection to Come is when we see Yeshua as He is in Heaven, not how He was on Earth where Isaiah claimed He would be like a root among the flowers and nothing much to look upon. Which Preacher is teaching what you are peddling here?
I wasn't comparing healing to prophecy. I was saying that supernatural gifts in general are not being seen with anywhere near the intensity we see in the NT.
(And, whether Peter called for it or not, the point is is that it happened, and we see nothing like that today.)
Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post. Sometimes I'm in my own head too much and fail to consider how someone else might read my words. I was comparing modern "prophets" to their (supposed) OT counterparts. They declare that such and such is going to happen, sometimes attaching a time to it, and it never materializes. And, the NT did have prophets in the OT sense. Let's not forget the last book of the Bible
I know there are some healings today. I didn't say it never happens. I said it's in "short supply".
Is it due to a lack of faith? Sometimes, I'm sure. But, it can't be in every case.
(And, whether Peter called for it or not, the point is is that it happened, and we see nothing like that today.)
Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post. Sometimes I'm in my own head too much and fail to consider how someone else might read my words. I was comparing modern "prophets" to their (supposed) OT counterparts. They declare that such and such is going to happen, sometimes attaching a time to it, and it never materializes. And, the NT did have prophets in the OT sense. Let's not forget the last book of the Bible
I know there are some healings today. I didn't say it never happens. I said it's in "short supply".
Is it due to a lack of faith? Sometimes, I'm sure. But, it can't be in every case.
I have always taken the position that God will do the same things he did in Acts today for the same reasons that He did them in Acts.
If we live like those Holy Spirit filled preachers in Acts we will experience the same things today.
It's not a comfortable life. Few choose to go all the way.
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I simply see it as God wills.
I people chock up any and every event to a miracle no matter after having chemo for months or a new job offer, etc.
I have not spoke or prayed in tongues, healed anyone, prophesied God's will for anyone, and have not seen the gifts of the Apostle.
All 4 of these mentioned gifts the charismatics believes in.
I operate in other gifts.
I people chock up any and every event to a miracle no matter after having chemo for months or a new job offer, etc.
I have not spoke or prayed in tongues, healed anyone, prophesied God's will for anyone, and have not seen the gifts of the Apostle.
All 4 of these mentioned gifts the charismatics believes in.
I operate in other gifts.
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Our Father has not lost His Almighty Being, He will work through His servants whenever it is His will.
What non-believers may call coincidences or a chance happening are everyday occurrences when the Holy Spirit is the catalyst.. All it takes is a willing servant combined with God's will.
He is always near, always here.
What non-believers may call coincidences or a chance happening are everyday occurrences when the Holy Spirit is the catalyst.. All it takes is a willing servant combined with God's will.
He is always near, always here.