Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Everlasting-Grace]

Throw away the crutch

A personal testimony -- When my son started High School I was told he would need a para to walk around with him. I asked why and they said because he can't walk up stairs without holding the handrail. If he falls he could be hurt. (He had a very difficult birth and had to have three different therapists all the way through elementary school. We had eliminated the occupational and speech therapists by this time but still he had to have a physical therapist).

So what I did was I took him hiking up the Adirondack mountains. On one mountain he could not make it 200 yards. The very first hill was too icy and hard as he tried he could make it up. So, I took off by belt and tied it to my pack so he could hold onto it and we climbed that mountain that way. It was brutal, slippery, sliding the entire way. You had melt water over ice. But we made it to the top and we made it back down with almost no falls (I was the only one to fall).

After a couple of weeks of this school started and I asked that he be reevaluated. He passed and never had to have a para in high school.

The problem with this is that you can take yourself out nd do all kinds of work to try to get yourself ready so you can climbe the stairway to heaven

You will still fail. because you can;t no matter how hard you work do it,

Thats why Jesus said we must become poor in spirit

You need to stop thinking so highly of yourself and look at you the way Jesus sees you

 

[ResidentAlien]

why would a person who has become bankrupt in spirit. Confessed of his total sinfullness, Confess he is headed to an eternity apart from God because of his sin, Confess he can do absolutely NOTHING to make up for the wrongs that he has done, that he is totally lost and in need of a savior. Who like the tax collector gets on their knees, unable to even look up and crys out for Gods mercy, ever repent of every believing these things, and placing their faith in the only one who could save them?

Unless they did not really confess or believe the things he claimed he confessed in?

That's a nice explanation. Which scripture does it explain?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You like to throw a lot of scriptures up. Let's keep this simple and to the point, if that's possible. Just show me one scripture that demonstrates beyond question that salvation is irrevocable, and explain why you believe that's what it says.

My friend

I used three passages

1 set of passages prove that eternal life is a gift

the last passage says the gifts of God are irrevocable

Romans 11 by itself proves that salvation is irrevocable, But since it does not say eternal life or the gift of salvation. Most people would use the excuse it does not say it and ignoreit

Thats WHY i used two passages (there are many more, I just used 2) to prove that one of the irrevocable gifts is eternal life..

if you will not take the time to read those passages. That is not on me, You can not say I did not prove my point. You can only say you do not wish to take the time to look at what I said .. at which case, I would question your sincerity of really seeking to find the answer that is right there in front of you

 

[FreeGrace2]

Please fix your post so that I can respond to your words.

I'm not sure what you mean by "fix". When you click on the "reply" button bottom right of the post, the post shows up in edit form with the "quote" marks within the brackets visible. All you need to do to separate your replies to individual comments, sentences, paragraphs is to place a QUOTE in brackets at the beginning of what the poster said, and an /QUOTE in brackets at the end of that, and then reply to what is in quotes.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I already addressed this above. Where do either of these passages say salvation is irrevocable?

It's called connecting the dots. One verse says salvation is a gift of God. The other verse says the gifts of God are irrevocable.

Sometimes we need more than 1 verse to prove a point.

Like John 5:24 and John 10:28 to prove eternal security.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The New Testament never says an unbeliever can have his name blotted out.

The new testament says an unbeliever is condemned

so whoever is not written in the book of life is cast in hell. and those cast in hell are those who do not believe

then you put two and two together

Jesus paid the debt of sin for all mankind, He died for the whole world. He did not do as a calvinsit believed and only pay for the sins of the elect. He paid for everyone's sins.

Thats why a persons name is written, because their sin debt was paid for..

if they die in the state of continued unbelief, they die in a state of continued condemnation. That is when their name is blotted out..

 

[Magenta]

Ephesians 1:13-14

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

That's a nice explanation. Which scripture does it explain?

it does not explain one scripture. it explains alot..And you have already chastened me saying I post to many scripture. so I will not go down that trail again

Can you answer the question please?

why would they unrepent, or go back to that state of unrepentance unless they never truly repented?

 

[ZNP]

I'm not sure what you mean by "fix". When you click on the "reply" button bottom right of the post, the post shows up in edit form with the "quote" marks within the brackets visible. All you need to do to separate your replies to individual comments, sentences, paragraphs is to place a QUOTE in brackets at the beginning of what the poster said, and an /QUOTE in brackets at the end of that, and then reply to what is in quotes.

When I clicked on reply your quote about "why, why, why" did not show up.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Why, why, why, that is the issue. -- FreeGrace2 #1,222

(I asked him to fix the post, he didn't so I'll just respond like this.)

Well, I don't stay on the computer all the time, but I did explain how to respond to a post. And I don't have a clue as to what you meant by "fix". It isn't broken. iow, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The doctrine of OSAS has been abused.

Probaby every truth in the Bible has been abused.

Maybe not by FreeGrace2 but it has been abused by FreeMason pastors who preach the prosperity gospel and OSAS. This is a doctrine of man and it is unnecessary. I prefer the doctrine of the apostles.

Don't forget the very clear words of Jesus.

The second problem is once you subscribe to a doctrine you must defend it to the end and that means explaining away verses as being figurative, or saying that verses discussing salvation don't matter, the only salvation that matters is the one you are talking about.

No, it doesn't mean all that at all. When you find a doctrine so clearly taught, you don't need to explain anything away. However, you do have to explain WHY the verses that get thrown at you don't teach what the other poster thinks they teach.

The third problem is this just makes things complicated with useless wrangling.

That's because people abuse the truth.

The simple answer to all of this is "Jesus is Lord", He will sort it all out. Your job is to stand on the blood of the lamb and be a witness.

If Jesus IS your Lord, just believe what He said so explicitly in John 5:24 and 10:28. You can't go wrong.

And anyone who comes up with "but what about....." and a list of verses that they claim teach loss of salvation, simply doesn't recognize Jesus as Lord. It IS that simple.

No verse can refute or contradict what Jesus said. So what Jesus said settles the matter.

It is just amazing how many believers don't believe that, though. Arminians are just as stubborn as Calvinists. Just in different areas.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Romans 11 by itself proves that salvation is irrevocable, But since it does not say eternal life or the gift of salvation. Most people would use the excuse it does not say it and ignoreit

Romans 11:26-29 says: "And so all Israel shall be saved, as it is written: 'The Deliverer shall come out of Zion, and He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob; For this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins.' As regards to the gospel, they are enemies for your sake; but as regards to election, they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

It's talking about the promises God made to the fathers. This passage isn't even talking about our salvation. How do you figure it means salvation is irrevocable?

 

[FreeGrace2]

When I clicked on reply your quote about "why, why, why" did not show up.

Maybe you have a software problem. Or hardware problem.

 

[ZNP]

The NT talks about losing salvation and being cast into the lake of fire

Matthew 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

This verse is spoken to believers. No unbeliever who does not bow the knee to Jesus as Lord would "pluck out their eye" nor would they enter into life even if they did.

Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

A heathen man is not saved. This is clearly referring to a "brother" who is in the church and would/should recognize the authority in the church, which of course is the Lord Jesus the incarnated word of God. This verse is an explanation of verse 9 where he talks about you being cast into the lake of fire. But it is the other side of the coin. The church needs to pluck this brother out and cast him from thee lest he cause the entire church to be cast into the lake of fire (ie the apostasy and false prophets like Balaam and prophetesses like Jezebel).

 

[ZNP]

Maybe you have a software problem. Or hardware problem.

Yes after 15,000 posts maybe I had a temporary glitch on your post and your post alone. That is one theory.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Romans 11:26-29 says: "And so all Israel shall be saved, as it is written: 'The Deliverer shall come out of Zion, and He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob; For this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins.' As regards to the gospel, they are enemies for your sake; but as regards to election, they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

It's talking about the promises God made to the fathers. This passage isn't even talking about our salvation. How do you figure it means salvation is irrevocable?

This passage says the GIFTS (plural) if God are irrevocable

The promise of Israel as a nation is only one gift.. So in context of the passage, if Paul was ONLY speaking about this one gift. he would say the GIFT (singular) and calling God made to them are irrevocable

Many people use Israel and gods calling of them as an example of our salvation

If God will not keep his promise to them, why do we think he will keep his promise to us.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The NT talks about losing salvation and being cast into the lake of fire

Matthew 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

This verse is spoken to believers. No unbeliever who does not bow the knee to Jesus as Lord would "pluck out their eye" nor would they enter into life even if they did.

Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

A heathen man is not saved. This is clearly referring to a "brother" who is in the church and would/should recognize the authority in the church, which of course is the Lord Jesus the incarnated word of God. This verse is an explanation of verse 9 where he talks about you being cast into the lake of fire. But it is the other side of the coin. The church needs to pluck this brother out and cast him from thee lest he cause the entire church to be cast into the lake of fire (ie the apostasy and false prophets like Balaam and prophetesses like Jezebel).

Man you will pull anything our wont you

Jesus is trying to show them things which keep people from comming to faith.. If the sins of the eye will keep you from trusting God (which it does to many a person pluck your eye out..

 

[Magenta]

Galatians 3:26-29
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized
into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free,
there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's,
then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Galatians 3:26-29
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized
into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free,
there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's,
then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

its amazing how they take these precise promises of God. and say somehow they are not true..

pride is a dangerous thing

 

[ZNP]

Yes is there a verse in the NT that says that God would not be righteous if you were not saved.

Romans 10:13 Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

This is a promise and it would be unrighteous to violate this promise. However, it is a bad translation.

The first use of this word in the New Testament is Matthew 10:3 and refers to the surname of the apostles.

This verse means that you are surnamed with the name of the Lord. So it really means whoever allows themself to be called by the name of the Lord shall be saved.

That means you, like Sarah, say that Jesus is Lord. It is also future tense, not present tense.

Anyone who is discarding Bible verses, ignoring Bible verses, and justifying that is not calling Jesus Lord.

Whoever shall be called by the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Please note, Calvin is not the name of the Lord. Armenian is not the name of the Lord. Baptist, presbyterian, Catholic, etc. These are not the name of the Lord.

However, those who embraced the fellowship of the apostles were called Christians. They were called by the name of the Lord.

No doctrine is "the name of the Lord".

There is no promise anywhere in the NT that if you subscribe to this OSAS doctrine you will be saved. Embrace the Bible every word.

These ones who keep explaining away bible verses and saying this is figurative, this is allegorical, this is not to be taken literally, but this one verse over here, that is literal. Go ahead, use that in your trial when you stand before the Lord Jesus, but before you do that you might want to run it by the Spirit who is your lawyer appointed to your defense.

 

[ZNP]

Galatians 3:26-29
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized
into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free,
there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's,
then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Yes, Esau was also Abraham's seed and an heir according to promise.