Sounds like YOU are adding to the gospel, or maybe just confused.
To have belief means to have faith. Faith, as a noun, is WHAT is being believed.
They go together. Can't be separated.
Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
- Thread starter ResidentAlien
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To have belief means to have faith. Faith, as a noun, is WHAT is being believed.
They go together. Can't be separated.
Nope it is not. because not everyone will recieve the gift. Stop trying to argue against calvinism, and look to the word for what it says.. I hate calvinism as much as you do. but I am not going to try to defeat it at all costs. which would get me to overlook some things which would lead me astray.
Actually this is in error. God is omnipotent. He is also omniscient. God does want no one to perish. but he will not force his salvation on anyone. At the same time, In his omniscience he will not give salvation to people he knows will one day give him the finger and tell him where to shove his salvation. NOSAS is the group who is not taking God for who he is. Not osas.. again, Your argument is against calvinism. so you are not seeing what is there you need to back of the calvinist angle and look at the word for what it says
It is the work of God that we believe. We can not take credit for saving ourselves because we trust completely in someone else to save us. Thats why salvation is a gift. A gift is given to a person. it does not mean they have to recieve it. It is still theres even if they reject it. But by rejecting it they will never reap the benefits of that gift..
As Jesus himself said, he who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already.
once again, Judas did not lose salvation, he never had it, He was condemned already, because he rejected the gift.
Does the verse that says he who endures to the end will be saved (Matthew 24:13) refer to the salvation that matters or to one of the many other salvation's?
Where does the Bible support this opinion? It doesn't.
Jesus was very clear in John 5:24 about those who believe possess (have) eternal life.
Then, in John 10:28 Jesus said recipients of eternal life (which is when they believe) shall never perish.
So your conclusion isn't biblically based.
Salvation from the penalty of sin is what enables someone to spend an eternity from christ,
I can be saved from paerticular sins, and healed from them. What good is that salvation if I am still dead in my sins and lost headed to hell.
I can be saved from a sickness, and live longer, But what good is it if I am still dead in my sin and headed to hell
Not sure why you are making it so difficult.
If it is done and done, then you are completely wrong. This thread is defined in the first post. In that post Runningman used Matthew 24:13 as one example of salvation. So obviously the definition we are using in this thread is all inclusive of all terms in the Bible, not just your incredibly narrow definition and your arrogance to imply that all other uses of salvation in the Bible don't matter.
Do you really have an open mind about it? Let's test your claim then.
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
Do you believe that whoever believes POSSESSES eternal life?
John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Do you believe that those given eternal life shall never perish?
Only if you answer yes to both questions do you have an open mind. And you will have repented of your opinion that OSAS can't be true.
Check the context.
So, Mr open mind, do you then believe that Jesus was somehow misguided, confused, or was He just pulling our legs?
Because this thread was not defined by you, how arrogant to think it is. The thread and the discussion is defined in the first post. Read it.
The idea that you would say many uses of the word "salvation" by the apostles don't matter is so repulsive I can say no more. I would never discuss the Bible with someone who takes that attitude.
Not confused at all
Many people beieve. yet have no faith.
I can believe Jesus was a person, I can believe he died on the cross. I can even believe he rose from the dead. It does not mean I trust that that is the means of my salvation,
Even demons believe yet tremble.. Demons never trusted in God, if they did they would still be angels not demons
I think the AND should be emphasized here, as in, "you will find Me if(when) you seek Me with all your heart."
So, salvation to me is finding (that) He rewards those who earnestly seek Him (He is faithful to keep His word as promised)
the salvation in Matt 24 refers to physical salvation ot spiritual salvation. It is spoken to those who are alive during the tribulation period. it is a message of hope. Endure until Christ comes, and you will be saved
this is where you get away from true spiritual salvation and what it means.
He quoted it in the first post. Therefore that is what the discussion is about. You don't get to say that this doesn't matter. You can agree, disagree with the premise, but if you want a different thread go and start it.
The fact that he includes a verse about enduring to the end of tribulations as part of his definition of salvation is proof that he is using an all inclusive definition.
who is the arrogant one here my friend. You asked me what salvation means according to OSAS and I answered YOUR questrion.
Funny how you can not even respond to the words I wrote or even counter them, you have to attack and try to make it appear as I did not do something
Two of you said you are waiting for someont to answer to you what salvation was. Well I shared it with you.
funny how when you get a real answer. you deflect and try to attack the one who did the very thing you asked
I am trying very, very hard to not be insulting. You have been insulting others and inferring things about what we are saying because you are using a definition of salvation that we are not using. This is not our fault, we used the first post to determine the definition of salvation. You bear all the shame and guilt for every insult and every false accusation you have made because of this error.
I asked because it became very clear to me you were not using the definition that the first post was. In your response you made it clear that you considered one of the verses he quoted as "not mattering".
Why would I respond? If you want a discussion on that start a thread.